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Earl Grey wrote:
Not pre-meditated but definitely murder in the heat of the moment rather than manslaughter.
This is one area in which US law does it better. South Africa, like the UK, has 2 degrees of homicide - murder and manslaughter. The US has 4.
pompeymick wrote:On 'hearing an intruder' what man would not wake his wife/partner and make her aware of the imminent danger before telling her to phone the police and make herself safe. Who would leave their partner asleep in bed (as a helpless target) should they be overwhelmed by the intruder(s).
Agree completely.
I before E except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour
pompeymick wrote:On 'hearing an intruder' what man would not wake his wife/partner and make her aware of the imminent danger before telling her to phone the police and make herself safe. Who would leave their partner asleep in bed (as a helpless target) should they be overwhelmed by the intruder(s).
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
I before E except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Yep, it sounds like a row with one partner withdrawing from the other.
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Yep, it sounds like a row with one partner withdrawing from the other.
But clearly, it doesn't sound enough like it to convince a judge.
I before E except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Or she was cowering silently in the toilet, thinking a burglar was right outside the door....
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Yep, it sounds like a row with one partner withdrawing from the other.
Not many arguments involve just one party shouting....
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:Not many arguments involve just one party shouting....
Well, I suppose you don't get involved in many face-to-face arguments, do you. More like people walking away from you laughing and saying "What a total ******!"...is that more your experience?
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Or she was cowering silently in the toilet, thinking a burglar was right outside the door....
Really? You don't think she'd be shouting to Oscar for some help in dealing with the burglar? Nothing along the lines of "OSCAR!! OSCAR!!! THERE'S AN INTRUDER, QUICK, SHOOT HIM!!!"
Sorry, but I cannot conceive of any scenario in which Reeva Steenkamp is silent, whether it be a scenario which is positive for Pistorius or negative. The point is that the fact that witnesses only hear Pistorius shouting just means he was shouting louder than Steenkamp, to the extent that his voice was able to be heard, and hers wasn't. I don't see that it is evidence one way or the other.
I before E except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Or she was cowering silently in the toilet, thinking a burglar was right outside the door....
Really? You don't think she'd be shouting to Oscar for some help in dealing with the burglar? Nothing along the lines of "OSCAR!! OSCAR!!! THERE'S AN INTRUDER, QUICK, SHOOT HIM!!!"
Sorry, but I cannot conceive of any scenario in which Reeva Steenkamp is silent, whether it be a scenario which is positive for Pistorius or negative. The point is that the fact that witnesses only hear Pistorius shouting just means he was shouting louder than Steenkamp, to the extent that his voice was able to be heard, and hers wasn't. I don't see that it is evidence one way or the other.
Who knows what went on in her head. However, if you were cornered and hiding centimetres behind an armed burglar, would you shout out?
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Or she was cowering silently in the toilet, thinking a burglar was right outside the door....
Really? You don't think she'd be shouting to Oscar for some help in dealing with the burglar? Nothing along the lines of "OSCAR!! OSCAR!!! THERE'S AN INTRUDER, QUICK, SHOOT HIM!!!"
Sorry, but I cannot conceive of any scenario in which Reeva Steenkamp is silent, whether it be a scenario which is positive for Pistorius or negative. The point is that the fact that witnesses only hear Pistorius shouting just means he was shouting louder than Steenkamp, to the extent that his voice was able to be heard, and hers wasn't. I don't see that it is evidence one way or the other.
Who knows what went on in her head. However, if you were cornered and hiding centimetres behind an armed burglar, would you shout out?
Now, obviously, I don't know anything about the layout of the Pistorius bathroom, however, in my bathroom the bath ends adjacent to the door. Most bathrooms I have been in have a similar layout - there is room to stand somehow not in direct line with the doorway. In that circumstance, I would probably stand there and shout my fecking head off.
In any case, witnesses have stated that they heard Pistorius shouting, and we know that Pistorius was standing just outside the bathroom door, so I would suspect that, whatever it was that was going on in her head at the time, the chances are pretty good that she knew it was Pistorius outside the door. I would suspect that she would have recognised his voice.
I before E except when you run a feisty heist on a weird beige foreign neighbour
I don't buy any other story, every other man on this planet would have made sure his partner was awake and alert to any perceived danger before deserting her. There doesn't seem to have been any evidence of a break in to support his story, just what did he hear to make him jump out of bed and fire blindly through a door, his partner flushing the loo? He's a Celebrity in South Africa and got a celebrity verdict.
HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife wrote:
He said he was shouting to her to call the police while he pointed the gun at the door.
Witnesses only reported hearing a male voice. If it was a row, you'd expect both voices.
If it was Pistorius shouting at what he thought was a burglar, surely Steenkamp would have shouted back "No, Oscar, it's me, Reeva!" or some similar attempt to persuade Pistorius not to shoot her.
Or she was cowering silently in the toilet, thinking a burglar was right outside the door....
Really? You don't think she'd be shouting to Oscar for some help in dealing with the burglar? Nothing along the lines of "OSCAR!! OSCAR!!! THERE'S AN INTRUDER, QUICK, SHOOT HIM!!!"
Sorry, but I cannot conceive of any scenario in which Reeva Steenkamp is silent, whether it be a scenario which is positive for Pistorius or negative. The point is that the fact that witnesses only hear Pistorius shouting just means he was shouting louder than Steenkamp, to the extent that his voice was able to be heard, and hers wasn't. I don't see that it is evidence one way or the other.
Who knows what went on in her head. However, if you were cornered and hiding centimetres behind an armed burglar, would you shout out?
Now, obviously, I don't know anything about the layout of the Pistorius bathroom, however, in my bathroom the bath ends adjacent to the door. Most bathrooms I have been in have a similar layout - there is room to stand somehow not in direct line with the doorway. In that circumstance, I would probably stand there and shout my fecking head off.
In any case, witnesses have stated that they heard Pistorius shouting, and we know that Pistorius was standing just outside the bathroom door, so I would suspect that, whatever it was that was going on in her head at the time, the chances are pretty good that she knew it was Pistorius outside the door. I would suspect that she would have recognised his voice.
And this is the bit i really don't get, If i get up in the middle of the night i always see if i have disturbed the missus, its sort of an instinctive thing, i always look to see if she is there, if after getting up and walking past the bed i thought i heard a sound that could have been an intruder in my house and i had to walk back past the bed the first thing i would have done is check if my missus was in it still, firstly to make sure she is safe and secondly if she has not awoken to wake her and make her aware of the danger. But considering he had to pass back by the bed then surely if he thought there was an inturder in the house he would have checked for her precence, was she in the bed ?
If yes, then fine carry on with his actions and shoot away in the knowledge that she is safe and the person the ther side of the door is someone that should not be there.
If no, then suspect that the noise could be my missus having a crap and investigate further to (a), find out where she is and (b), determine if there really is an intruder !
I personally think he is as guilty as hell as his story just does not stack up. Even if by some miracle he did not check and know she was not in bed and genuinely thought it was an intruder in the bog then i can not believe that he would not have shouted something out warning them he had a gun and would shoot, we know he shouted something as his voice was heard. In which case i believe as already has been written above, if she was in the toilet and had just gone in for a pony and heard his voice under normal circumstances she would have said something, even if it was "hang on minute i am just curling one off" at which point you would have said "ok, heard a noise and thought we were being broken into, you would not have started letting lose rounds.
