English votes for English MPs

[RubiconCSL]

Am I missing something here, or are Labour just playing party politics, at the expense of the public they should represent? What good reason can there be, for insisting Scottish MPs - with a devolved parliament - should vote on issues that are purely English? I may have missed something, but it looks so transparent, that they just want the extra votes the Scottish Labour MPs will bring them. It could be a real election loser from the comments I am hearing.

Why not invite French and German MPs to vote as well while we are at it?

[Locky_McLockface]

but it looks so transparent, that they just want the extra votes the Scottish Labour MPs will bring them.

I cannot see any other reasoning for their stance.

[Pompey1985]

I wouldn't let the Scottish MP's vote on Scottish matters... they chose to be our bitch.

[Weybridge]

Labour (or to be more precise - any Labour constituency north of Watford) are against it because of the fear it strengthens Westminster's hold over the rest of England. - The chance to devolve more power to regions like Manchester and Birmingham becomes almost redundant. Westminster becomes a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

[HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife]

The Barnett Formula allocates spending for Scotland as a fixed percentage of English spending (roughly £1.10 to Scotland for every squid spent in England), so there is arguably a strong democratic case for Scottish MPs still having a say on 'English legislation'....although Labour's stance is almost certainly a totally self-serving one.

We really need to resurrect regional devolution but this time with equal autonomy, not the hash job tried in the NE.

[RubiconCSL]

Fair enough. But if Scotland is going to get the chance to raise their own taxes and, I assume, vote between themselves on what and how and how much, then surely that Barnett Formula will need to change; we can't have them raising their own taxes that aren't shared among non Scottish people AND still have the rest of us cough up more per person for them than us out of the pooled taxes.

Why would everyone outside London get stuffed? Are there many more MPs inside of London than outside of it?

The bit that may be odd, is that let's say Labour get in with a small majority, mainly by virtue of 40 odd Scottish seats. When it came to votes on English only issues, they could well be the minority party (losing 40 Scottish MPs votes), even though they are the majority as far as winning the election was concerned.

The Barnett Formula allocates spending for Scotland as a fixed percentage of English spending (roughly £1.10 to Scotland for every squid spent in England), so there is arguably a strong democratic case for Scottish MPs still having a say on 'English legislation'....although Labour's stance is almost certainly a totally self-serving one.

We really need to resurrect regional devolution but this time with equal autonomy, not the hash job tried in the NE.

[Earl Grey]

The Barnett Formula allocates spending for Scotland as a fixed percentage of English spending (roughly £1.10 to Scotland for every squid spent in England), so there is arguably a strong democratic case for Scottish MPs still having a say on 'English legislation'....although Labour's stance is almost certainly a totally self-serving one.

We really need to resurrect regional devolution but this time with equal autonomy, not the hash job tried in the NE.

Fair enough. But if Scotland is going to get the chance to raise their own taxes and, I assume, vote between themselves on what and how and how much, then surely that Barnett Formula will need to change; we can't have them raising their own taxes that aren't shared among non Scottish people AND still have the rest of us cough up more per person for them than us out of the pooled taxes.

Why would everyone outside London get stuffed? Are there many more MPs inside of London than outside of it?

The bit that may be odd, is that let's say Labour get in with a small majority, mainly by virtue of 40 odd Scottish seats. When it came to votes on English only issues, they could well be the minority party (losing 40 Scottish MPs votes), even though they are the majority as far as winning the election was concerned.

It appears on the surface to be a sound idea but for the reasons HH outlined it may not be the best way forward.

So the real answer is to take a proper look at what is required, who's asking for it, is it needed or even wanted, what are the longer term consequences etc. etc.

This knee-jerk reaction after the referendum is not justified. There is no panic on this issue - we have time to sort it.

[Here comes AFC]

Am I missing something here, or are Labour just playing party politics, at the expense of the public they should represent? What good reason can there be, for insisting Scottish MPs - with a devolved parliament - should vote on issues that are purely English? I may have missed something, but it looks so transparent, that they just want the extra votes the Scottish Labour MPs will bring them. It could be a real election loser from the comments I am hearing.

Why not invite French and German MPs to vote as well while we are at it?

Missing something.

The biggest issue in trying to convert Westminster into an 'English Parliament' on the cheap is that it effectively bars any Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish MP from taking a ministerial post. Who wants a minister who can't vote on (all) the policies they're responsible for?

[RubiconCSL]

But if he/she is a Scottish MP, then surely they can vote on everything that affects their constituents. They can vote on issues that affect Scotland and the rest of the UK. They can also vote on issues that only affect Scotland.

Not being able to vote on non-Scottish issues in no worse than a Euro MP not being able to vote on French only issues, while still being able to vote on European wide issues.

Am I missing something here, or are Labour just playing party politics, at the expense of the public they should represent? What good reason can there be, for insisting Scottish MPs - with a devolved parliament - should vote on issues that are purely English? I may have missed something, but it looks so transparent, that they just want the extra votes the Scottish Labour MPs will bring them. It could be a real election loser from the comments I am hearing.

Why not invite French and German MPs to vote as well while we are at it?

Missing something.

The biggest issue in trying to convert Westminster into an 'English Parliament' on the cheap is that it effectively bars any Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish MP from taking a ministerial post. Who wants a minister who can't vote on (all) the policies they're responsible for?

[Here comes AFC]

But why have a Scottish/Welsh/Nortern Irish MP as, for example, Chancellor?
They could well be the most qualified canididate ever to have presented themselves for the post; but they will be excluded from voting on policies put forward be themselves if that part of the portfolio happens to have been devolved?

An English Parliament, if that's what's needed, is fine. However, trying to achieve it on the cheap by bastardisng the UK Parliament is not the way forward. All that will do is further disengage the other nations from Westminster

But if he/she is a Scottish MP, then surely they can vote on everything that affects their constituents. They can vote on issues that affect Scotland and the rest of the UK. They can also vote on issues that only affect Scotland.

Not being able to vote on non-Scottish issues in no worse than a Euro MP not being able to vote on French only issues, while still being able to vote on European wide issues.

Am I missing something here, or are Labour just playing party politics, at the expense of the public they should represent? What good reason can there be, for insisting Scottish MPs - with a devolved parliament - should vote on issues that are purely English? I may have missed something, but it looks so transparent, that they just want the extra votes the Scottish Labour MPs will bring them. It could be a real election loser from the comments I am hearing.

Why not invite French and German MPs to vote as well while we are at it?

Missing something.

The biggest issue in trying to convert Westminster into an 'English Parliament' on the cheap is that it effectively bars any Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish MP from taking a ministerial post. Who wants a minister who can't vote on (all) the policies they're responsible for?

[past memories]

I never thought Gordon Brown to be quite so thick, when he says, `the United Kingdom cannot be such when you have two levels of MP`s`.
Could`ve fooled me !

[pomp 'n circumstance]

This thread sounds very much like a P G Wodehouse book where Bertie Wooster spends his life in the Drones Club among the other old buffers.....then it struck me that devolution has already occurred in Cornwall and another inbred comedy turn!

With so many right wing contributors, it might be possible for Woy of the Wovers to make use of their talents in the England team - we need a penetrating right winger. The only thing against that premise is that most of you have declared the ownership of jeans - not only jeans, but the quantity and the price. Terribly bad form chaps......we may have to black ball a few of you!

[sacre blue]

For many years, I have felt that there is something wrong with the current voting system. Devolution means the Scottish Assembly has control over many subjects - health, education - so, for me, Scottish MPS should not have votes at Westminster on subjects where thieir votes affect English only subjects.

[Here comes AFC]

For many years, I have felt that there is something wrong with the current voting system. Devolution means the Scottish Assembly has control over many subjects - health, education - so, for me, Scottish MPS should not have votes at Westminster on subjects where thieir votes affect English only subjects.

The future of the UK Parliament is a fair point of discussion as we move towards a more devolved state. However, it's not just Scotland; Wales, Northern Ireland and London have devolved powers. Going forward there are plans to devolve more powers to Manchester, Merseyside and the West Midlands.......

To effectively manage that though do we have MPs trotting in and out of Westmeinster depending on whether it is felt a particular topic concerns them or do we keep Westminster as the UK Parliament dealing with national issues and set up legislative bodies to manages decisions made at the devolved level, whatever they may be.

Also, as it stands we have a hotchpot of devolved powers across the UK. There needs to be a real discussion on what devolution means for the whole of the UK; not just knee jerk reactions to hastilly made promises to Scotland.