OT - Second Amendment - Obama nails it

[... and chips]

[HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife]

Gun laws increases violent crime, FACT.

Good Lord. I seriously doubt there is a shred of evidence to back this up.

Oh look:
"Right-to-carry gun laws linked to increase in violent crime, Stanford research shows

Stanford research reaffirms that right-to-carry gun laws are connected with an increase in violent crime. This debunks – with the latest empirical evidence – earlier claims that more guns actually lead to less crime."

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/nove ... 11414.html

[uspompeyfan]

Gun laws increases violent crime, FACT.

Good Lord. I seriously doubt there is a shred of evidence to back this up.

Oh look:
"Right-to-carry gun laws linked to increase in violent crime, Stanford research shows

Stanford research reaffirms that right-to-carry gun laws are connected with an increase in violent crime. This debunks – with the latest empirical evidence – earlier claims that more guns actually lead to less crime."

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/nove ... 11414.html

Try looking at Chicago and New York and you'll see gun related crime has increased since tougher laws are in place. However, these ar not newsworthy because it doesn' fit the Government agenda.

[... and chips]

Try looking at Chicago and New York and you'll see gun related crime has increased since tougher laws are in place. However, these ar not newsworthy because it doesn' fit the Government agenda.

Post-hoc ergo propter hoc?

[uspompeyfan]

john, presuming your translating is thus: "Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X."

With around 2000 separate laws added to the basic principle of the 2nd Amendment (and we include all gun control laws to date), your theory cannot work here.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Gun laws increases violent crime, FACT.

Good Lord. I seriously doubt there is a shred of evidence to back this up.

Oh look:
"Right-to-carry gun laws linked to increase in violent crime, Stanford research shows

Stanford research reaffirms that right-to-carry gun laws are connected with an increase in violent crime. This debunks – with the latest empirical evidence – earlier claims that more guns actually lead to less crime."

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/nove ... 11414.html

Try looking at Chicago and New York and you'll see gun related crime has increased since tougher laws are in place. However, these ar not newsworthy because it doesn' fit the Government agenda.

Much as I like to agree with you on this issue...its not a govt agenda...its a people agenda....the majority of the populace in every poll clearly want tougher gun legislation. The reps are out of step with majority opinion. I do tend to agree tougher gun laws are merely cosmetic and accomplish next to nothing. Don't think you can relate the rise in gun crime in NY and Chicago with tougher laws. NY has been at an all time low in gun crime for years....the only way to go was up and I suggest the uptick is down to the FACT that NY stop and search laws have been trashed as the main reason. Chicago .....well its entirely black on black shoot-outs that gun laws have zero effect on because gangsters don't buy their armories legally anyways. Still...I think sensible people would at least support a background check....though that would do zero re the current spat of nutjobs.

[... and chips]

[Earl Grey]

[Lost in Transportation]

I do like this but it does makes the Kid's point for him.

[Miss Tickle's bottom]

There is some comedy genius from uspompeyfan in this thread! Here are some of my highlights:-

America does seem to hive a high preponderance of Mummy's Boys

Once a government has too much control it becomes a Dictatorship without controls

America is the land of the Free.

I'm saving the best for last, though:-

john

Yep, he's forgotten how to spell the name of one of his closest friends! One day he'll realise his wacky views are due to him being, well, a bit dim.

[Earl Grey]

Now I have no idea as to the veracity of the site linked below but if it's even half true it's shocking just how many 'mass shootings' there have been in the USA this year.
http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
A cursory glance gives their definition of 'mass shooting' to be at least four people shot but not necessarily killed.

[This Time Next Year]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

Presumably the response here is that the laws need to be changed so that the 8 year old girl could have had better access to guns to defend herself and her puppy?

[Locky_McLockface]

More guns means less people will get hurt

Yes, because the good guys can defend themselves.

Complete balls, USPF, sorry. The only way that person can adequately defend himself (or herself) is to be permanently carrying their gun with their finger on the trigger. By the time they had unholstered their gun, and aimed it, they would have been killed.

If someone has a gun pointed at you, then yes, they would probably get a shot off before you could shoot them - rather than utter an insult, Lock man, don't use such an obvious 'one off' situation - you are better than that.

Many home invasions don't happen the same way you would envisage in your mentioned argument. If someone enters the house of an unarmed person, the likelihood is they will get harmed in some way, raped or even killed.....

In the same scenario, with a gun owner able to defend himself / herself, the robber can either depart quickly or suffer the chance of getting injured or killed himself. Once it becomes known who has a gun and who doesn't..... which houses are likely to get hit, next time.

Chicago and New York - Tough new gun control laws - higher gun crime figures
Oregon - new 'gun free zones' = crazed gunman has more time to kill innocent people without even armed security (crass decision IMHO).

Spend resources on fixing the problems of mental health and other related causes for the people to commit the crimes - that is the root cause of the gun crime in the first place.

One-off situation? I don't see how it's one-off. In all these multiple shootings, the perpetrator has gone to the scene, with the sole intention of shooting, they have their weapon drawn, finger on trigger.

Home invasions? I didn't realise we were talking about that, but how many Americans sit at home assuming their house is about to be invaded, and are ready, finger on trigger? Somewhere close to none, I'd suspect. But with your gun-toting robber, he'll be expecting that perhaps someone has a gun, so they will need to get the first shot off. So where will their finger be? Somewhere close to the trigger, I'd suspect.

SOmeone said that criminals will always be able to get hold of guns. Yes, that's right, they will. But it's not hardened criminals that carry out these mass shootings, is it? It's people with mental problems, and gun control laws would make it harder/impossible for such people to get hold of a weapon. Perhaps that's why we, in the UK, have not had a mass shooting in who-knows-how-many years?

Tell me, what is the point of NY introducing tough gun control laws, when anyone who wants a gun can just pop across the George Washington Bridge into NJ, and buy a gun there? Introduce those same controls federally, and perhaps it might make a difference.

[Lost in Transportation]

I still don't see why posters are linking gun control with the Federal State.

The point about the US constitution is that it operates assuming that power lies with the individual and cedes power upwards reluctantly. This is the opposite of the UK where power resides with an individual and cascades downwards based on patronage.

Its not up to Obama or Congress to sort this out, it is the people and their local/state representatives. There is nothing stopping a county, city or state imposing tighter restrictions if they so wish. If the American people want to amend the constitution to enable gun control on a federal level then they need to get a petition supported in a majority of states.

[phat_chris]

559 under 12s shot and killed already this year in America. If that statistic alone isn't enough to make them change their thinking on guns then there is no hope for them.