"Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

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GreenBlue
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by GreenBlue »

The Cincinnati Kid wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:08 pm
Sam_Brown wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:59 am That's fair. I think I'm of the opinion you can't control other peoples actions so all you can do is control your own and hope other people are considerate enough not to put you at risk intentionally.

I was also curious about The Cincinnati Kid's opinions as I know he's been very vocal on some aspects of the lockdown in this thread. Especially on stopping or in some cases reversing the easing of restrictions in many US states and if he still feels it's too much despite recent news of record cases in areas?
yeah, with hindsight of course, an 8 week global lockdown with everyones military on the streets might have worked. The half hearted efforts of most democracies haven't worked well. The tactic perhaps (hindsight alert) should have been to totally lock down the vulnerable spots of society and let the rest of us get on with it until herd immunity and / or vaccine is achieved. I suspect y'all will see the same resurgence in the Euro countries opening back up. They say 20 x more peeps have had it than recorded positive tests so here at least we must be around 40 odd millions had it, most without knowing so, hopefully, you cant get it twice and herd immunity will be achieved..... which by now, with the cat being so far out of the bag is about the only way this is going away.
My opinion on lockdowns / shutdowns hasn't much changed. They have been shown to be ineffective in this society other than localized ones for the purpose of not overloading medical care. They do appear to have been effective in certain countries. NZ, Taiwan, S. Korea come to mind. But that would also mean those countries wont have any herd immunity so who knows how it will end up for them and will they be able to get back to business as normal.
CK, I don't think I could disagree with you more than I do on this one. Totally locking down the vulnerable would have been ineffective an pointless if the rest of society just went about their business as they would be never be safe to come out again using you analogy of NZ. So a life sentence for millions of vulnerable people.

Or wait until the vaccine? I hope you are right but despite what President S#!t for brains keeps telling us. there is currently little sign of a vaccine being available to all any time soon. Playing Devil's Advocate on this point, you suggest that countries like New Zealand will not have herd immunity but would they need that if a vaccine comes along?

The herd immunity argument, I have not seen any solid scientific evidence to prove that would work in this case as there is no evidence that it cannot be caught twice.

Who says the figure of those who have had it is 20 times what is reported? I do believe it is considerably more than reported but I would certainly not base any calculations comfortably on that figure.

Finally, your persisting idea of herd immunity is extremely dangerous. I know of youngsters who have been hit really badly by this and there are people who have died due to mass exposure to the virus so suggesting the fit just carry on as we did before would see an explosion in numbers and even more fit people succumbing to COVID. As PakefieldBlue say, his fit and healthy wife is still suffering fatigue weeks after contracting the virus and the same with my 23 year old son who caught it in March. (PB, I hope you wife gets back to full fitness and health soon)

I appreciate CK, that you are not a politician so is probably unfair to pick apart your opinions however my opinions differ so much on this point that I felt obliged to counter with my own. Anyway, all that said, stay safe over there, this virus really is nasty.
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by The Cincinnati Kid »

nothing wrong with opinions there GB.
My point on locking down the vulnerable and letting the rest of us get on with it is I mean that herd immunity (if there is such a thing) will be achieved by the populace thus the virus will then be unlikely to be carried around unknowingly and at a point, the lockdown on the vulnerable can be be relaxed. And by lockdown, I dont mean an authoritarian lockdown, I mean sealing off Nursing home A or indeed any vulnerable person that wants to be locked down at home,, sealing off their staff, paying them double, testing them daily etc etc....whatever it takes..... . The 20 x more people infected number is reported here by the CDC....my apologies its 10x so I was incorrect on my number.


https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... ly-thought
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by PakefieldBlue »

[/quote]
As PakefieldBlue say, his fit and healthy wife is still suffering fatigue weeks after contracting the virus and the same with my 23 year old son who caught it in March. (PB, I hope you wife gets back to full fitness and health soon)
[/quote]

Thanks GB - same to you and your son!
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by New Forester »

There are some very bright people on this board.

Me? I'm not trying to figure things out.

I've put lockdown to good use. Approaching our 55th anniversary my wife and I understand each other at last. I have conceded victory.
Avatar: Harry 'Brusher' Mills (19 March 1840 – 1 July 1905) was a hermit, resident in the New Forest in Hampshire, England, who made his living as a snake-catcher. He became a local celebrity and an attraction for visitors to the New Forest.No relation as far as I know :thumb
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by GreenBlue »

New Forester wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:26 am There are some very bright people on this board.

Me? I'm not trying to figure things out.

I've put lockdown to good use. Approaching our 55th anniversary my wife and I understand each other at last. I have conceded victory.
Congratulations on 55 years New Forester :thumb and you must be pretty bright yourself to realise conceding victory to our wives is the only way! :rofl
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by SouthernPies »

Sorry to bump an old thread...
A lot of the coverage we read and hear is of the negative figures in the UK and US.
Like all countries we can over do the "chest beating". Our media is heavily one sided. Especially if it is to do with the media darling.. "All Blacks". (Rugby is just one set piece after another)

Wondering how it is going on the street? Is the herd immunity kicking in or is the states/counties still bouncing round with lockdowns?

Our economy has been sheltered from the worst with Govt intervention, though that has stopped now and we expect a jump in unemployed over the next two months...

Keep healthy :-)
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by GreenBlue »

SouthernPies wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:43 am Sorry to bump an old thread...
A lot of the coverage we read and hear is of the negative figures in the UK and US.
Like all countries we can over do the "chest beating". Our media is heavily one sided. Especially if it is to do with the media darling.. "All Blacks". (Rugby is just one set piece after another)

Wondering how it is going on the street? Is the herd immunity kicking in or is the states/counties still bouncing round with lockdowns?

Our economy has been sheltered from the worst with Govt intervention, though that has stopped now and we expect a jump in unemployed over the next two months...

Keep healthy :-)
Hi SP. I don't think the Government here in the UK has ever officially said that herd immunity is a policy as such, although the head of the Government, Dominic Cummings, is known to support this approach despite the fact that there is no scientific proof that it would be effective.

On the streets, people are generally courteous to others and respect social distancing however there are some who either forget, are ignorant or were too thick to adopt the practice of respecting other's social space.

The UK Gov't have finally adopted compulsory mask wearing in public closed spaces and shops (except where they haven't - confusing for some cabinet ministers) and again most appear to follow these procedures apart from those that don't who probably fail to do so for the same reasons as mentioned above.

The wearing of masks has proved quite contentious however evidence is now suggesting that their wearing has a greater effect than originally thought by some. I heard a really good analogy regarding masks...

"If everybody was naked and close together and somebody peed, all those nearby (within a couple of metres) would get their legs splashed with pee.
If you wore jeans, you would still get splashed but the jeans would protect the pee from splashing directly on your skin unless you were really close and they peed directly on you.
Most importantly, if the person peeing was wearing jeans then it is highly unlikely that anyone would get splashed with pee unless they were very very close.

I think this analogy should be told to My Trump as, allegedly, he would understand the scenario of being naked and being peed on. Allegedly!
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by Mr Dee »

Comparing a sub microscopic virus to pee?

I think you're losing the plot GB . 🤷
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by Mr Dee »

Actually maybe your not . Someone on the other side of a twitter spat the other day said wearing a mask to stop the virus is like hanging a goal net over an open window to stop mosquitoes getting in.

Who knows maybe your all normal and I'm losing the plot
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by GreenBlue »

Mr D Nuts wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:51 am Comparing a sub microscopic virus to pee?

I think you're losing the plot GB . 🤷
Nuts, it was an analogy. I wasn't suggesting that sub-microscopic viruses were similar to pee. Like most people haven't really lost a needle in a haystack etc...

But your point about me losing the plot could be accurate. :dance:
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by Mr Dee »

GreenBlue wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:17 pm
Mr D Nuts wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:51 am Comparing a sub microscopic virus to pee?

I think you're losing the plot GB . 🤷
Nuts, it was an analogy. I wasn't suggesting that sub-microscopic viruses were similar to pee. Like most people haven't really lost a needle in a haystack etc...

But your point about me losing the plot could be accurate. :dance:
I think the last few months have definitely sent many of us a little tipsy to say the least.
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by Pompey Penguin »

Mr D Nuts wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:07 pm Someone on the other side of a twitter spat the other day said wearing a mask to stop the virus is like hanging a goal net over an open window to stop mosquitoes getting in.
Was this Donald Trump? In any case, whatever you think of masks, it is complete nonsense.

The aerosols expressed by simple breathing do not consist of separate individual viral units; rather they are a larger grouping of many viruses plus a whole load of mucus, water, etc. What is expressed by sneezing, and similar, has even more mucus and larger lumps. That is why when you blow your nose the material is largely caught in the handkerchief and doesn't just pass straight through.

The chances of catching and the severity of the disease is to a large extent dependent upon the degree of exposure; one viral unit, no problem, millions/billions of units, lots of problems. So any catching is good, it doesn't have to be 100% to be effective.
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by Mr Dee »

I can't remember who it was , it wasn't in seriousness so it probably wasn't Donald Trump .

Whatever happened to catch it, bin it, kill it ? I'm all for catching it just don't see the need to walk round with damp rags in our faces.
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by GreenBlue »

Masks have been worn for may years by people in Japan when they have colds to stop the spread. Masks are never worn twice, unless they are washable re-usable ones. I have long wondered why the Corona figures in Japan have stayed so low seeing as it was one of the first countries to be exposed to this virus. I believe the widespread wearing of masks could have been a contributing factor. Guess what? I'm pro sensible usage of masks just in case you hadn't already guessed. :D
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Re: "Tis better to die on our feet than live on our knees

Post by Mr Dee »

GreenBlue wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:37 pm Masks have been worn for may years by people in Japan when they have colds to stop the spread. Masks are never worn twice, unless they are washable re-usable ones. I have long wondered why the Corona figures in Japan have stayed so low seeing as it was one of the first countries to be exposed to this virus. I believe the widespread wearing of masks could have been a contributing factor. Guess what? I'm pro sensible usage of masks just in case you hadn't already guessed. :D
How do they get colds if the masks work ?

😉
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