"That" Burnley Banner

[BlueinPLtwenty]

My feeling is that many Americans have seen how weak the Democratic Party are when they are in Government. They are afraid that the Chinese and Russians will walk over Biden and "P*** on the USA. They see the need for a President who will stand up to the Reds (including Russia here) and put America first!

[uspompeyfan]

I think we have the result of nearly 80 years of indoctrination finally turning the heads of the Millennial generation to what it has become, devoid of seeing the truth even when it is clear. If the Dems win in November, God help the World because it will change radically for the worse.

With respect, the only way that this view makes sense is if the Democrats have never been in power to the present and therefore cannot be trusted on 3rd November 2020. That is factually incorrect: there have been a whole series of Democrat administrations while America has prospered over the last 80 years.

I think that you've been watching too much of Rupert Murdoch's right wing propaganda TV channel, Fox News.

But you're in good company: the current President also gets all his 'facts' from the same channel.

Here's his a typical tweet on 24th February 2020: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Total USA deaths to 28th June 2020: 128,000. May God rest their souls.

I rest my case, M'Lud.

I have openly said that I am a Republican, but as I happen to be living in a State currently seeing an increase in cases, and listen to various news channels, I would proffer to have a little more knowledge than someone living across the pond. I am fortunate enough to have access through the Congressional Office of Andy Biggs, whose campaign I am volunteering with.

The latest rush of cases was not from Trump's recent visit as the media has suggested, but I would say that the 16 days of needless riots have something to do with it...bringing it round to my original opposition to BLM.

[GreenBlue]

I have openly said that I am a Republican, but as I happen to be living in a State currently seeing an increase in cases, and listen to various news channels, I would proffer to have a little more knowledge than someone living across the pond. I am fortunate enough to have access through the Congressional Office of Andy Biggs, whose campaign I am volunteering with.

The latest rush of cases was not from Trump's recent visit as the media has suggested, but I would say that the 16 days of needless riots have something to do with it...bringing it round to my original opposition to BLM.

I'm sure you didn't intend it to be but your post did sound a little condescending.

It kind of sounded like "I live somewhere where cases are increasing and listen to my news channels of choice so I know more about it than you do."

As I mentioned, I am sure you didn't intend it to sound like that but reading it again, it still does.

[uspompeyfan]

I have openly said that I am a Republican, but as I happen to be living in a State currently seeing an increase in cases, and listen to various news channels, I would proffer to have a little more knowledge than someone living across the pond. I am fortunate enough to have access through the Congressional Office of Andy Biggs, whose campaign I am volunteering with.

The latest rush of cases was not from Trump's recent visit as the media has suggested, but I would say that the 16 days of needless riots have something to do with it...bringing it round to my original opposition to BLM.

I'm sure you didn't intend it to be but your post did sound a little condescending.

It kind of sounded like "I live somewhere where cases are increasing and listen to my news channels of choice so I know more about it than you do."

As I mentioned, I am sure you didn't intend it to sound like that but reading it again, it still does.

Emotion is always in how the post is read rather than how it is written, so you can always feel it is condescending if you disagree with the comment or its author, which in this case is me. The whole BLM movement is an American thing that, due to the Left wing teachings in all Universities and school systems in Europe now, has spread over the pond.

BLM has shown itself to not care about Black Lives, with absolutely no response to the lives lost in big (Dem run) cities such as Chicago, New York, Baltimore, Detroit and obviously in the news, Seattle (my former home). Seeing English people speak with authority about BLM is like listening to Yanks sounding off about Brexit.

[uspompeyfan]

I think we have the result of nearly 80 years of indoctrination finally turning the heads of the Millennial generation to what it has become, devoid of seeing the truth even when it is clear. If the Dems win in November, God help the World because it will change radically for the worse.

I am by no means a fan of Biden, but in what way will the world radically change for the worse if the Democrats win?

Well, based on his own comments through the Primaries and since the Pandemic started.....

He has sided with the Left wing of the party and the 'Green Deal' that was proposed by part-time bartender, now Congresswoman, AOC in New York. The commitment to end fossil fuels and all businesses that need them are to update accordingly. The Green New Deal also puts an end to aircraft (it is in the document, not my words).

Congress passed along party lines, an unconstitutional bill to make the District of Columbia (Washington DC) its own State - the Constition clearly defined that this was never to be the case as it gave too much power to the Federal Government. Currently voting 86% Democrat, this would give several (not mentioned yet) Congressional delegates and 2 Senators to the Dems, which would strongly move the balance of power for future elections in all three branches of power.

Dems would vote down the Phillibuster, meaning that they would only ever need a 51% vote to pass any bill. If they win in November, this would almost certainly give them power in all three branches without a philibuster vote....giving them unchartered options to pass every piece of radical legislation currently being put out by the new wave of radicals that got voted into power in 2018 (2 uncontested elections and 1 where 2 Dems contested).

With that much power, the Dems would be able to reign almost unchallenged as they could change Congressional districts to suit their own boundaries - again, no Philibuster could stop them.

Biden would allow over 11 million illegal aliens to get fast-tracked to citizenship - collecting life time support of 11 million extra voters. Add in the 'no border' decree he has supported on the Southern border and USA will see many more arrive from around the World - many paid for by the State as they get health benefits and all that the US has to offer. The Democrats don't need to care about legal US Citizens, it just wants power and numbers.

Pulling back the Trump tax cuts from a few years ago which saw many businesses return to the US and the pre-pandemic boom that America was enjoying, would see millions of jobs lost back to overseas as businesses look to build their products in more tax-friendly countries.

Obama (and this is Biden's own track record - his own words) created the lowest percentage of working Americans, high unemployment for both the Black and Latino work force - we would see this return. Confidence in the US economy would be destroyed very quickly and debt would pile on...... the US would resemble Venezuela very quickly.

China, Russia, Iran and even Cuba and multiple Middle Eastern despots would have no fear of American Leadership. ISIS would return unabated and China especially would have a field day with the US economy, definately not held accountable for the Corona Virus which could have been halted before it left China.

Those responsible for the now debunked phoney Russian dossier would never be held accountable. Those that took part in the debacle, which includes Biden himself, would rally round and create a power base. They wouldn't care that the crooks would now be in power, because they would have autonomous power.

America would change and not for the better. Biden has said what he would do and Seattle's CHOP zone would seem like a picnic when reality his in November, for America.

[No Shot Sherlock]

Well, based on his own comments through the Primaries and since the Pandemic started.....

He has sided with the Left wing of the party and the 'Green Deal' that was proposed by part-time bartender, now Congresswoman, AOC in New York. The commitment to end fossil fuels and all businesses that need them are to update accordingly. The Green New Deal also puts an end to aircraft (it is in the document, not my words).

Congress passed along party lines, an unconstitutional bill to make the District of Columbia (Washington DC) its own State - the Constition clearly defined that this was never to be the case as it gave too much power to the Federal Government. Currently voting 86% Democrat, this would give several (not mentioned yet) Congressional delegates and 2 Senators to the Dems, which would strongly move the balance of power for future elections in all three branches of power.

Dems would vote down the Phillibuster, meaning that they would only ever need a 51% vote to pass any bill. If they win in November, this would almost certainly give them power in all three branches without a philibuster vote....giving them unchartered options to pass every piece of radical legislation currently being put out by the new wave of radicals that got voted into power in 2018 (2 uncontested elections and 1 where 2 Dems contested).

With that much power, the Dems would be able to reign almost unchallenged as they could change Congressional districts to suit their own boundaries - again, no Philibuster could stop them.

Biden would allow over 11 million illegal aliens to get fast-tracked to citizenship - collecting life time support of 11 million extra voters. Add in the 'no border' decree he has supported on the Southern border and USA will see many more arrive from around the World - many paid for by the State as they get health benefits and all that the US has to offer. The Democrats don't need to care about legal US Citizens, it just wants power and numbers.

Pulling back the Trump tax cuts from a few years ago which saw many businesses return to the US and the pre-pandemic boom that America was enjoying, would see millions of jobs lost back to overseas as businesses look to build their products in more tax-friendly countries.

Obama (and this is Biden's own track record - his own words) created the lowest percentage of working Americans, high unemployment for both the Black and Latino work force - we would see this return. Confidence in the US economy would be destroyed very quickly and debt would pile on...... the US would resemble Venezuela very quickly.

China, Russia, Iran and even Cuba and multiple Middle Eastern despots would have no fear of American Leadership. ISIS would return unabated and China especially would have a field day with the US economy, definately not held accountable for the Corona Virus which could have been halted before it left China.

Those responsible for the now debunked phoney Russian dossier would never be held accountable. Those that took part in the debacle, which includes Biden himself, would rally round and create a power base. They wouldn't care that the crooks would now be in power, because they would have autonomous power.

America would change and not for the better. Biden has said what he would do and Seattle's CHOP zone would seem like a picnic when reality his in November, for America.

Yep, still sounds better than Trump.

[uspompeyfan]

Well, based on his own comments through the Primaries and since the Pandemic started.....

He has sided with the Left wing of the party and the 'Green Deal' that was proposed by part-time bartender, now Congresswoman, AOC in New York. The commitment to end fossil fuels and all businesses that need them are to update accordingly. The Green New Deal also puts an end to aircraft (it is in the document, not my words).

Congress passed along party lines, an unconstitutional bill to make the District of Columbia (Washington DC) its own State - the Constition clearly defined that this was never to be the case as it gave too much power to the Federal Government. Currently voting 86% Democrat, this would give several (not mentioned yet) Congressional delegates and 2 Senators to the Dems, which would strongly move the balance of power for future elections in all three branches of power.

Dems would vote down the Phillibuster, meaning that they would only ever need a 51% vote to pass any bill. If they win in November, this would almost certainly give them power in all three branches without a philibuster vote....giving them unchartered options to pass every piece of radical legislation currently being put out by the new wave of radicals that got voted into power in 2018 (2 uncontested elections and 1 where 2 Dems contested).

With that much power, the Dems would be able to reign almost unchallenged as they could change Congressional districts to suit their own boundaries - again, no Philibuster could stop them.

Biden would allow over 11 million illegal aliens to get fast-tracked to citizenship - collecting life time support of 11 million extra voters. Add in the 'no border' decree he has supported on the Southern border and USA will see many more arrive from around the World - many paid for by the State as they get health benefits and all that the US has to offer. The Democrats don't need to care about legal US Citizens, it just wants power and numbers.

Pulling back the Trump tax cuts from a few years ago which saw many businesses return to the US and the pre-pandemic boom that America was enjoying, would see millions of jobs lost back to overseas as businesses look to build their products in more tax-friendly countries.

Obama (and this is Biden's own track record - his own words) created the lowest percentage of working Americans, high unemployment for both the Black and Latino work force - we would see this return. Confidence in the US economy would be destroyed very quickly and debt would pile on...... the US would resemble Venezuela very quickly.

China, Russia, Iran and even Cuba and multiple Middle Eastern despots would have no fear of American Leadership. ISIS would return unabated and China especially would have a field day with the US economy, definately not held accountable for the Corona Virus which could have been halted before it left China.

Those responsible for the now debunked phoney Russian dossier would never be held accountable. Those that took part in the debacle, which includes Biden himself, would rally round and create a power base. They wouldn't care that the crooks would now be in power, because they would have autonomous power.

America would change and not for the better. Biden has said what he would do and Seattle's CHOP zone would seem like a picnic when reality his in November, for America.

Yep, still sounds better than Trump.

And that is why I am now an American, not British. We disagree on many things Neil, always have, always will, but I will always respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them.

[richisbradders]

I have openly said that I am a Republican, but as I happen to be living in a State currently seeing an increase in cases, and listen to various news channels, I would proffer to have a little more knowledge than someone living across the pond. I am fortunate enough to have access through the Congressional Office of Andy Biggs, whose campaign I am volunteering with.

The latest rush of cases was not from Trump's recent visit as the media has suggested, but I would say that the 16 days of needless riots have something to do with it...bringing it round to my original opposition to BLM.

I'm sure you didn't intend it to be but your post did sound a little condescending.

It kind of sounded like "I live somewhere where cases are increasing and listen to my news channels of choice so I know more about it than you do."

As I mentioned, I am sure you didn't intend it to sound like that but reading it again, it still does.

Emotion is always in how the post is read rather than how it is written, so you can always feel it is condescending if you disagree with the comment or its author, which in this case is me. The whole BLM movement is an American thing that, due to the Left wing teachings in all Universities and school systems in Europe now, has spread over the pond.

BLM has shown itself to not care about Black Lives, with absolutely no response to the lives lost in big (Dem run) cities such as Chicago, New York, Baltimore, Detroit and obviously in the news, Seattle (my former home). Seeing English people speak with authority about BLM is like listening to Yanks sounding off about Brexit.

I kinda feel like we should of taken the advice early on and just closed this thread.

BLM is an American thing? So the concept that there is racial inequities in any other country doesn’t exist?

I’m sorry but also you’re saying that being English we shouldn’t join the movement that black lives matter? I’m quite flabbergasted by some of your comments to be honest.

[Mr Dee]

BLM . Coming to a town near you

[Sam_Brown]

There seems to be conflation \ confusion between the idea of "BLM" which I agree with and some organizations \ groups that seem to think they ARE or REPRESENT the BLM movement as a whole.

Take this "official BLM UK" twitter account for example: https://twitter.com/ukblm which I've seen quoted on various main stream media platforms as somehow being representative of BLM as a whole. I'm not convinced this conflation \ confusion isn't intentional to try and dismiss the legitimate concerns and get people infighting.

[GreenBlue]

The Black Lives Matter movement in the UK, and the one adopted by the Premier League and football as a whole, is non-political and portrays equality and opposes racism of any kind.

Is there a need for such a movement in football? Yes undoubtedly. We all remember the vile abuse black players received in the past and yes it is less now than it was in the 80s for example, but "less" is still unacceptable as it should be none.

I do not believe the racists have gone away but it has, rightly so, become unacceptable to throw bananas, make monkey chants or shout out foul and disgusting skin-colour based comments at players. If the education and social nonacceptance of such behaviour had not been in place here, I believe that racism would still be as rife as ever in our game. Just look at certain countries when England have played in the last few years.

So I massively support the Black Lives Matters movement adopted by football as here, it represents and demands equality. Surely nobody can oppose equality so that is why many decent people found "That Burnley Banner" offensive.

I look forwarded to seeing players continue to take the knee for equality.

[Sam_Brown]

The Black Lives Matter movement in the UK, and the one adopted by the Premier League and football as a whole, is non-political and portrays equality and opposes racism of any kind.

Is there a need for such a movement in football? Yes undoubtedly. We all remember the vile abuse black players received in the past and yes it is less now than it was in the 80s for example, but "less" is still unacceptable as it should be none.

I do not believe the racists have gone away but it has, rightly so, become unacceptable to throw bananas, make monkey chants or shout out foul and disgusting skin-colour based comments at players. If the education and social nonacceptance of such behaviour had not been in place here, I believe that racism would still be as rife as ever in our game. Just look at certain countries when England have played in the last few years.

So I massively support the Black Lives Matters movement adopted by football as here, it represents and demands equality. Surely nobody can oppose equality so that is why many decent people found "That Burnley Banner" offensive.

I look forwarded to seeing players continue to take the knee for equality.

What do you think about that twitter account I linked to? It was "verified" as being official which is something I thought was only used to sort the fake celeb accounts from the real ones but gives this BLM twitter feed the air of being "legit" which is why it was picked up in the news when they mentioned about wanting to defund the police.

Also you mention "the one adopted by the Premier League and football as a whole" how do you differentiate that from the other people \ BLM groups etc that have slightly different views on what BLM should mean? Some more extreme and some less? It makes it very easy to tar the whole movement with the actions of a few bad eggs and makes it easy for racists to dismiss the whole BLM movement using specific examples.

[Mr Dee]

There seems to be conflation \ confusion between the idea of "BLM" which I agree with and some organizations \ groups that seem to think they ARE or REPRESENT the BLM movement as a whole.

Take this "official BLM UK" twitter account for example: https://twitter.com/ukblm which I've seen quoted on various main stream media platforms as somehow being representative of BLM as a whole. I'm not convinced this conflation \ confusion isn't intentional to try and dismiss the legitimate concerns and get people infighting.

People don't seem to realise BLM isn't just a phrase. Its a political movent looking to destabilise society. They want to remove police forces , free black prisoners and legalize all drugs amongst other things.

[Sam_Brown]

There seems to be conflation \ confusion between the idea of "BLM" which I agree with and some organizations \ groups that seem to think they ARE or REPRESENT the BLM movement as a whole.

Take this "official BLM UK" twitter account for example: https://twitter.com/ukblm which I've seen quoted on various main stream media platforms as somehow being representative of BLM as a whole. I'm not convinced this conflation \ confusion isn't intentional to try and dismiss the legitimate concerns and get people infighting.

Its a political movent looking to destabilise society.

Who runs it?

[GreenBlue]

What do you think about that twitter account I linked to? It was "verified" as being official which is something I thought was only used to sort the fake celeb accounts from the real ones but gives this BLM twitter feed the air of being "legit" which is why it was picked up in the news when they mentioned about wanting to defund the police.

Also you mention "the one adopted by the Premier League and football as a whole" how do you differentiate that from the other people \ BLM groups etc that have slightly different views on what BLM should mean? Some more extreme and some less? It makes it very easy to tar the whole movement with the actions of a few bad eggs and makes it easy for racists to dismiss the whole BLM movement using specific examples.

Two very fair and legit questions SB, I will try to answer them honestly.

On the first, I personally don't support a call for defunding the police. I believe a well run police force is essential for any society. In a Utopian world there would be no need for one but we don't and never will live in a Utopian world. I actually believe there should be more funding for the policing a large chunk of that must go into the work the police do in the community. I think there is hope in campaigns where police, gangs, ex criminals and local councils work together on various initiatives.
I also believe that to have an effective police and it must be reflective of society so I would like to see a more concerted push to get more police personnel from a wider racial scope. The majority of police in our country do an excellent job and the majority are fair and balanced in their views on equality however I know (please respect my reason for not wanted to say how I know) that racism is still very much alive and well amongst some in the policing community.

The second question is such a difficult one to answer. How to differentiate between different representations and interpretations of Black Live Matters. When I see players "Taking the Knee" at the start of games I see that as a "We are all in this together in our fight against racism" which I think is a really powerful message. "Kick it out" and "Show racism the red card" are/were very valuable and put out a very strong message however, because this current stance, by taking the knee, appears to be adopted by all players and therefore will reach more people and open their eyes to what has gone on within the game.

You are correct when you say the actions of a few bad eggs makes it easy for racists to dismiss the whole movement and it would also be correct to say that a few bad eggs within the policing community make it easy for those with more extreme views than mine to dismiss the whole police.

Hope that answers your questions.