Wigan v Hull
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:03 pm
Anyone betting on the HT-FT on this game? Could go either way...
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Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:32 pm
Put a fiver on 9-7 to Wigan
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:35 pm
That Paul Cook - really boring football.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:59 pm
Yeah, as I'm sure was the case in their 0-0 draw with bottom club Barnsley on Saturday when they managed a total of 6 shots, none of which were on target
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:06 pm
Well, that's a blow. Even with their 12 point deduction, it is probable that Wigan will escape relegation. Wigan would have been the only team in L1 that I had never visited if they had been relegated; I'll have to pray for another strange cup away draw now.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:32 am
It makes me wonder what is the points reduction supposed to achieve? If 12pts is the norm and it makes no difference to Wigan, why bother? It should either be a punishment to inflict whatever the league thinks should be done i.e. an x division drop, regardless of the points, or nothing. 12pts seems like a haphazard number plucked out of the air that actually means nothing.
I'm not saying I wan Wigan relegated by the way; I have no feeling there, one way or the other. It just shows how slapdash and toothless the football league and premier league actually are.
I'm not saying I wan Wigan relegated by the way; I have no feeling there, one way or the other. It just shows how slapdash and toothless the football league and premier league actually are.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:17 pm
I think I read that if they were relegated before any points deduction is applied then it would be applied at the beginning of next season. If not, it's applied this season if it will relegate them. Not sure what happens if they would still survive after deduction but you'd hope it would be applied next season in the Championship otherwise it's no punishment at all.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:44 pm
SHerl, you're right about the relegation scenario.
I think the official punishment is a points deduction in the season in which the insolvency period started, except where the team would have been relegated anyway. The latter part was to close the loophole of clubs going into administration earlier than they would have done in order to negate the effect of the points deduction. Therefore, I don't believe that the EFL can do anything other than deduct the points this season.
I would presume that the consequent reduction in finishing position in the league would affect their prize money - I presume there is prize money dependant upon league position, as there is in the Prem.
I think the official punishment is a points deduction in the season in which the insolvency period started, except where the team would have been relegated anyway. The latter part was to close the loophole of clubs going into administration earlier than they would have done in order to negate the effect of the points deduction. Therefore, I don't believe that the EFL can do anything other than deduct the points this season.
I would presume that the consequent reduction in finishing position in the league would affect their prize money - I presume there is prize money dependant upon league position, as there is in the Prem.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:56 pm
The advantage of a standard 12 points deduction is that all teams know where they stand. There is no favouritism for certain clubs, and we avoid the situation some years ago with Luton where the football authorities were just making it up as they went along. Of course, whether 12 points is the right number can be debated.RubiconCSL wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:32 am It makes me wonder what is the points reduction supposed to achieve? If 12pts is the norm and it makes no difference to Wigan, why bother? It should either be a punishment to inflict whatever the league thinks should be done i.e. an x division drop, regardless of the points, or nothing. 12pts seems like a haphazard number plucked out of the air that actually means nothing.
A quick look at last season's Championship table suggests that a 12 point deduction would have directly impacted over half the teams. The top two would have dropped from automatic promotion to the play-offs; all four play-off teams would have dropped out of those; five teams near the bottom would have dropped into the relegation zone. Those in the relegation places would have the penalty applied to 2019-20. So that's 14/24 teams directly impacted, plus others indirectly as they would move upwards. So it seems about right to me, maybe could be a little higher such as 15 points which would draw in a few more teams.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:30 pm
Fair point. I imagine even though relegation is the usual result of such a deduction that it's not the intended punishment. Otherwise why not just say you get automatically relegated or set it to something absurd like losing 100 points to ensure the team is definitely relegated and it avoids having to deal with the hassle of having four teams for relegation that year.Pompey Penguin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:56 pmThe advantage of a standard 12 points deduction is that all teams know where they stand. There is no favouritism for certain clubs, and we avoid the situation some years ago with Luton where the football authorities were just making it up as they went along. Of course, whether 12 points is the right number can be debated.RubiconCSL wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:32 am It makes me wonder what is the points reduction supposed to achieve? If 12pts is the norm and it makes no difference to Wigan, why bother? It should either be a punishment to inflict whatever the league thinks should be done i.e. an x division drop, regardless of the points, or nothing. 12pts seems like a haphazard number plucked out of the air that actually means nothing.
A quick look at last season's Championship table suggests that a 12 point deduction would have directly impacted over half the teams. The top two would have dropped from automatic promotion to the play-offs; all four play-off teams would have dropped out of those; five teams near the bottom would have dropped into the relegation zone. Those in the relegation places would have the penalty applied to 2019-20. So that's 14/24 teams directly impacted, plus others indirectly as they would move upwards. So it seems about right to me, maybe could be a little higher such as 15 points which would draw in a few more teams.
Re: Wigan v Hull
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:45 pm
Fair point. However, it would be a lovely bonus to one team in the lower division 
I think it depends on what they are trying to do by deducting points. If the clear intention is that the club should be punished, then clearly, Wigan are not being punished.
If a team is in a promotion position, then they lose promotion.
If they are in a play-off position, then they lose the chance of the play-offs.
If they are lower than that, then they get relegated. Otherwise, it is meaningless.
Fining seems plain silly if the club is in financial difficulty anyway.
Failing that, if the points deduction doesn't actually punish them, then it carries over to the next season instead.
I think it depends on what they are trying to do by deducting points. If the clear intention is that the club should be punished, then clearly, Wigan are not being punished.
If a team is in a promotion position, then they lose promotion.
If they are in a play-off position, then they lose the chance of the play-offs.
If they are lower than that, then they get relegated. Otherwise, it is meaningless.
Fining seems plain silly if the club is in financial difficulty anyway.
Failing that, if the points deduction doesn't actually punish them, then it carries over to the next season instead.
Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:30 pm Fair point. I imagine even though relegation is the usual result of such a deduction that it's not the intended punishment. Otherwise why not just say you get automatically relegated or set it to something absurd like losing 100 points to ensure the team is definitely relegated and it avoids having to deal with the hassle of having four teams for relegation that year.