General chat room. Pompey related or not, but PLEASE keep it reasonably clean.

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By New Forester
#897357
Surely we have got the message. Am I alone in thinking it’s time to stop? If not, when?
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By Sam_Brown
#897363
I won’t get into the politics of this for once but I do find it funny we’ve gone from a lot of people vilifying Colin Kaepernick back in the day for taking a knee and here we are a few years on with people not taking the knee being vilified. Funny how things turn out. When this is all done and dusted I wonder what side of history we’ll end up on.
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By blue architect
#897368
Dinksy wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:04 am
Never understood the phrase even. Back in my day it was called 'kneeling'.
I've heard the phrase used by Royal Marines to refer to taking a rest on one knee while yomping with a full pack. Obviously you don't have time to remove the pack and if you lie or sit it's difficult to get back up again quickly in an emergency.
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By GreenBlue
#897371
Unfortunately racism is still rife and especially so within football. Just look at the reactions to the black England players when we have played in certain Balkan countries; but it does not end there. There have been similar situations in Italy and Spain to name a few and sadly we can add the UK to that list too. So if racism is still prevalent, and kneeling/taking the knee is a unified message against it, then what is the issue?

Until racism is eradicated, which it never will be, people will need to see that others are making a stand and saying "No more". So I am hugely in support however nobody should be forced to do so against their will.
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By Sam_Brown
#897374
GreenBlue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:50 am
So if racism is still prevalent, and kneeling/taking the knee is a unified message against it, then what is the issue?
On one side you have people \ groups who are are taking the BLM name and using it for their own gains \ agenda that are probably outside what most people consider ummm... palatable. I recall "BLM" phoning up and saying the police should be defunded on some radio shows for example.

On the other side you then have people who see the BLM name and people using it for their own gains and think that's indicative of everyone that supports it and then go against the whole thing.

Ultimately I think the lines just get blurred and peoples preconceived opinions about things just get reinforced by what they chose the read and what fits their own opinion.

Now a warning. This is conspiracy theory stuff. Part of me thinks you have bad faith actors on both sides who purposefully flame the fires to continue the "debate" who's actual plan is to perpetuate the blurring of lines and turn it into a "hot potato" issue so that we're all chatting about BLM and being distracted from other items that should also be considered just as important. It's just classic divide and conquer tactics and one of the things that's been prevalent in the american sphere for many years that's started to creep into the UK I despise.
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By Sam_Brown
#897375
GreenBlue wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:50 am
So I am hugely in support however nobody should be forced to do so against their will.
I'm the same. Feel this is all part of the same tactic to create distractions and "discourse" within people.
By Dinksy
#897378
blue architect wrote:
Dinksy wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:04 am
Never understood the phrase even. Back in my day it was called 'kneeling'.
I've heard the phrase used by Royal Marines to refer to taking a rest on one knee while yomping with a full pack. Obviously you don't have time to remove the pack and if you lie or sit it's difficult to get back up again quickly in an emergency.
That's interesting because I'd aasumed it was an American phrase.

As for the 'issue' I think the problem is that once you make the gesture a policy, it's a form of ideological enforcement. You do not allow any space for those who may disagree with the issue or agree with it but don't want to express their view in that way. The pressure is on them to go with their conscience and be exposed to the inevitable vitriol of the (mostly social media) zealots or cave in to the 'consensus' for a peaceful life.
Creating this climate of fear intolerant to individualism is the time-hounoured weapon of choice for all forms of totalitarianism from Hitler to Pol Pot.
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By New Forester
#897391
I’m not questioning the taking of the knee but it’s duration. Perhaps now the Cup Final is over, that’s it. But will it go on to the Champions League? And the new season?
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By GreenBlue
#897397
New Forester wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:25 pm
I’m not questioning the taking of the knee but it’s duration. Perhaps now the Cup Final is over, that’s it. But will it go on to the Champions League? And the new season?
I watched the end of an MSL cup match between NYC and Portland. Both coaches were wearing a "Black Lives Matter" top so it appears the movement is growing and has in part been adopted by football as a whole. If that is the case I wonder how teams in Serbia and Montenegro etc will react.

I hope it is not short lived so as to keep the movement in the spotlight but also I want it to mean something when players take the knee. It is only a 10-15 second gesture so should not really cause any upset to anyone.
By uspompeyfan
#897438
I feel there is a huge mis-understanding as to what the taking the knee means.

In the US, the knee is related to Kapernick's stand on police violence to the black population. Initially, kneeling for the National anthem (rather than the action of just kneeling) was considered offensive to the Country (and IMHO rightly so - as it wasn't explained effectively).

The knee in recent times was more to do with the recent events where a cop wrongfully used the knee on George's neck (not in police training). Typically, especially in an election year, this has been used by organizations such as ANTIFA and BLM to claim systemic racism in the country (there is not when you consider the major advances since the 50s and 60s - nowhere near perfect, but certainly not the norm right now).

BLM are not interested in Black Lives at all. Their website shows the aim of the group. They want the violence. They want to change history and wipe out anything that goes against their mantra. If they cared about Black Lives, why don't they step into the black neighborhoods in cities such as Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, New York etc...... The young children that have been shot recently - not one parent has been contacted by BLM. No parades, no riots for these infants...maybe because they were killed by black men and not cops.

The African American population are encouraged to re-live the slavery years by the Democratic Party and every two years, the ads push down their throats the idea that racism was brought about by Republican Party members (as they control most Southern States now). Sadly, history tells us (and one reason they are trying to change it) that Democrats were the slave owners. Lincoln and Grant fought against slavery (Republicans) The Confederacy was Democrat held in elections, while the Union was predominantly Republican. Even Martin Luther King was a Republican as he voiced concern for Civil Rights, and he believed in doing so, peacefully. The Democrats use his name and take his words out of context, preferring violence over peace.

No one in their right minds would accept that slavery is right. The period of American History was not the only slave issue in the World. It has been going on for thousands of years and most European Nations also condoned it, but it is accepted as a dark period of history that most have learned from. The vast majority of Americans have no connection to the past slave trade, so why should they apologize for it? Why are the same people not interested in the current slave trade going on across the Northern and Southern borders (White and Hispanic females are most common) - this slave trade doesn't fit the narrative they want to persue.

The fight against racism isn't just white on black, it is (and very commonly) black on Hispanic, also black on white, brown on brown and so on. All racism is bad, so focus on the whole thing and a knee doesn't help any of it. European athletes are considered laughable because they are puppets and the majority don't know fully who they are supporting when they kneel. rant over.
By uspompeyfan
#897439
For the record......

THE MANIFESTO OF OUR STRUGGLE

AFRICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS! HERE IS THE PROGRAM OF A REAL BLACK MOVEMENT. IT IS TIME FOR A REVOLUTION THAT IS NON-DOGMATIC, INNOVATIVE AND AGAINST PREJUDICE.

FOR THE POLITICAL INJUSTICE: WE DEMAND:
UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE POLLED ON A REGIONAL BASIS, WITH PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION AND VOTING AND ELECTORAL OFFICE ELIGIBILITY FOR UNDOCUMENTED CITIZENS.
Why should illegal aliens be allowed to vote? What other country allows this?
A MINIMUM VOTING AGE OF 16 YEARS AND A MINIMUM AGE OF 25 TO HOLD A PUBLIC OFFICE.
Allows for the indoctrinated school kids to be forced into voting their way and in many schools, civics isn't taught till after this age
THE ABOLITION OF THE LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL BRANCHES OF THE US GOVERNMENT.
The Constitution was set up to ensure checks and balances and it works - Losing it would create a Dictatorship and the loss of the Constitutional Republic - ala Russia, China, and most South America countries for example
THE CREATION OF A NATIONAL ASSEMBLY FOR A DURATION OF 3 YEARS. ITS PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY WILL BE TO FORM A NEW CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.
THE FORMATION OF A NATIONAL COUNCIL OF EXPERTS FOR LABOR, INDUSTRY, TRANSPORTATION, PUBLIC HEALTH, COMMUNICATIONS, ETC. SELECTIONS TO BE MADE FROM THE COLLECTIVE PROFESSIONALS OR OF TRADESMEN WITH LEGISLATIVE POWERS, AND ELECTED DIRECTLY TO A GENERAL COMMISSION WITH ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS. (Union power grab?)

FOR THE RACIAL INJUSTICE: WE DEMAND:
THE IMMEDIATE ENACTMENT OF FEDERAL LAW THAT SANCTIONS AN EIGHT-HOUR WORKDAY FOR ALL WORKERS.
Unreasonable for many professions that need unique skills
A FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE OF $20 PER HOUR.
Destruction of small businesses who are struggling at $12 per hour - the costs would go to the sales price which would increase the overall cost of living exponentially to make $20 an hour not viable
IMMEDIATE CREATION OF LABOR UNIONS FOR ALL MAJOR INDUSTRIES.
Oh, I mentioned this earlier
LABOR UNIONS AND THEIR REPRESENTATIVES ARE TO BE GIVEN EQUAL POWER AS THAT OF INDUSTRY EXECUTIVES OR PUBLIC SERVANTS.
Look back at Hoffa and other Union leaders who were given too much power to see what the future holds
THE RAPID AND COMPLETE NATIONALIZATION OF ALL THE TRANSPORT INDUSTRIES.
REDUCE THE NATIONAL RETIREMENT AGE FROM 66 YEARS OF AGE TO 55 YEARS OF AGE.
Agism as there is no money to sustain Social Security for the millions this would add - what next, Logan's Run style ending of lives? (tongue in cheek)
FOR THE POLICE INJUSTICE: WE DEMAND:
THE INSTITUTION OF UNARMED MEDIATION AND INTERVENTION TEAMS WITH A SHORT PERIOD OF MANDATORY SERVICE.
THE NATIONALIZATION OF ALL THE WEAPONS, BULLET, AND EXPLOSIVES MANUFACTURERS.
End of second Amendment which was set up to ensure government could be defended against by citizen militia
A NATIONAL POLICY INTENDED TO PROMOTE AND FURTHER BLACK AND OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR CULTURES AND IDENTITIES IN THE WORLD.
What happened to qualifications to earn a job?
FOR THE ECONOMIC INJUSTICE: WE DEMAND:
A STRONG PROGRESSIVE TAX ON CAPITAL THAT WILL BE REDISTRIBUTED AS REPARATIONS TO ENSLAVED DESCENDANTS AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
Why should people who weren't involved in this, pay for those who are not effected by the past slave trade - giving to black people because they want it
THE SEIZURE OF ALL THE POSSESSIONS OF THE RELIGIOUS CONGREGATIONS AND THE ABOLITION OF ALL THE RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN USED TO OPPRESS, ENSLAVE, AND COLONIZE PEOPLE OF COLOR.
End of First Amendment and the articles of Indepenance
THE REVISION OF ALL MILITARY CONTRACTS AND THE SEIZURE OF 85 PERCENT OF THE PROFITS TO BE REDISTRIBUTED TO THE ENSLAVED DESCENDANTS AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
Reduce the military to nothing so the country cannot defend itself
THE MANIFESTO OF OUR STRUGGLE
AFRICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS! HERE IS THE PROGRAM OF A REAL BLACK MOVEMENT. IT IS TIME FOR A REVOLUTION THAT IS NON-DOGMATIC, INNOVATIVE AND AGAINST PREJUDICE.
Inciting violence against law abiding citizens
Nothing about defending Black People against Black gangs.....
User avatar
By GreenBlue
#897445
Sorry US, you are blinkered by your blind devotion to the Republican party and to the right-wing press.

Lines like " The Democrats use his name and take his words out of context, preferring violence over peace." are just wrong.

In Europe, the gesture of taking the knee and the adoption of the term Black Lives matter is far removed from the political face in the US. It is a genuine stance against inequality and a movement in support of attempting to eradicate racism. When the F1 drivers, European footballers and all the other sports people who have taken the knee do so, they are not signing up to some far left mantra, they are simply expressing the fact that racism has gone on, largely unchallenged, for too long.

You say "European athletes are considered laughable because they are puppets and the majority don't know fully who they are supporting when they kneel."

I would argue that you are too narrow minded to see past your own point of view on this stance. They do not need to be scholars of US history or modern US politics to understand why they are doing so as, although it may have been nicked and adapted from certain events, it has transcended them and is now being used as a symbol of equality and justness. They know exactly why they do it.
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