OT - Michael Gove's A-level proposals

[Pompey Junglist]

.................Trouble is Micky [Grove], all universities use the modular system...........

Not sure why that automatically means it's right to do things that way at every educational level.

I appreciate what you say about coursework needing to be properly argued, laid out and researched because that's real life for those seeking work that requires degree-level status - and if there's no comeback on poor coursework because it doesn't count to the degree, students may not try too hard.

But things change the higher up the educational tree you go. At GCSE level there's maybe less need for showing complete and structured thesis-style answers to questions with all the sources, references, second sources blah blah blah. You're just trying to see your pupils have a rounded knowledge of the subject, can perform calculations where necessary, show some contextual appreciation and understanding etc. etc.

More formal answers can START to be introduced at A-level but it's the job of universities to provide and nurture those tools that a degree-educated employee would be expected to show. Pupils that leave school with no intention of getting a degree are less likely to need those formal ways of presenting work.

Disagree. Anyone staying in education to 18 should be learning these skills and it will benefit them throughout life, even if they end up being a road sweeper.

People going to University should already be familiar with such an approach, I don't want Universities wasting time and money doing remedial work on such matters. That's not the point of them

Take your point, PJ, but what I was saying was that maybe, just maybe the A-level stage is where you INTRODUCE those formal methods without rigorously requiring the pupils to use them in a way that affects their exam results to any degree.

What you mustn't lose sight of is the goal of gaining a broad spread of knowledge within the subject. Once you get to uni you usually specialise a bit more within your subject by your choices year by year and there you can hone the formality of structure, sources, secondary sources etc etc

Spend too much time at A-level demanding thesis-style answers to tests and you miss the opportunity to show the pupil the full range of stuff within their subject which may help them choose their direction at uni.

Jon (and you) may be right in that modular testing is the best way forward at school level too......but the argument came across as ill-considered. WE do it like this so EVERYONE else should.
It sounds like you maybe agree with me that at GCSE the requirement for uber-formality is less necessary ("education to 18") but you disagree when it comes to A-level (perhaps you can enlighten me on your opinion there). My arguments laid out above justify my position.

I did qualify myself earlier on in this thread by saying I don't work in this area so I'm prepared to be wrong and maybe modular testing is the best way even at schools....even at GCSE-level - but I just didn't like the argument presented like that.

I largely agree with what you say EG. You're right in that A-Level students must get the chance to demonstrate their knowledge and we shouldn't go too hard on the formal methods but I think we should be demanding quite a bit of both to attain the higher grades.

[Pompski!]

I disagree. It's extremely radical and brave and I think people are reacting badly to it as a result. If Gove succeeds in improving results and choice for people, creating a meritocratic environment for education providers, he'll have done more for social mobility than any politician in decades. As I alluded to earlier, for all the changes to education over the past half century it's still depressingly easy to closely predict a child's results at school based on their postcode. The early signs are that free schools are breaking this correlation. I'm not sure if he'll succeed but I hope and suspect he does.

Believe me, my OH is a teacher, I worked at a school for 7 years. My job at the moment involves working closely with 2500 teachers across the UK. Gove is a total disaster zone.

Can you really see no problem with businesses running education and pushing their products at kids who are there to learn? There is a monopolies commission in place to stop a single company forcing themselves on and saturating a market but that is exactly what some academies are doing. Forcing their products on a captive market and greasing the palms of government to enable them to do it too.

There was nothing wrong with central government running all schools until they realised they couldn't afford it. Then there was no problem local authorities running their schools until they realised they couldn't afford it. Now companies are running them. What next? Oh, free schools - mums running them voluntarily. It's ridiculous. I am all for change but Gove wants the kind of private education he had as a kid but doesn't want to pay for it.

As for giving parents a choice, it's BS. There are still catchment areas. What about the choice of keeping your children in a good comprehensive school when it is being shut down and replaced by a super academy? There is no choice.

And as for Gove criticizing the quality of qualified teachers with years of experience and then replacing them with unqualified teaching assistants to save cash. It stinks.

[Pompey Junglist]

Believe me, my OH is a teacher, I worked at a school for 7 years. My job at the moment involves working closely with 2500 teachers across the UK. Gove is a total disaster zone.

I know loads of teachers and they all agree entirely!

Can you really see no problem with businesses running education and pushing their products at kids who are there to learn? There is a monopolies commission in place to stop a single company forcing themselves on and saturating a market but that is exactly what some academies are doing.

I would have a problem with this if it was as callous and widespread as you suggest. I doubt it is though. Maybe it's the cynic in me but this sounds like textbook scaremongering.

There was nothing wrong with central government running all schools until they realised they couldn't afford it. Then there was no problem local authorities running their schools until they realised they couldn't afford it. Now companies are running them. What next?

I think there's quite a lot wrong with central government running all schools. In your last post you gave some excellent examples as to why the 'couldn't afford it' problem is unlikely to continue.

As for giving parents a choice, it's BS. There are still catchment areas. What about the choice of keeping your children in a good comprehensive school when it is being shut down and replaced by a super academy? There is no choice.

There will be choice, it's entirely about choice and it's choice that will raise standards - unlike with the status quo. Yes there are still catchment areas. In future the poor children trapped in a catchment area with a failing comprehensive may get the chance to receive a decent education and break the postcode link to a life of low attainment.

And as for Gove criticizing the quality of qualified teachers with years of experience and then replacing them with unqualified teaching assistants to save cash. It stinks.

Heavy, heavy spin on events imho.

[... and chips]

I want to see an investigation following the money to, through and out of academies compared to the old system.

I spoke to someone high up in an exam board yesterday. She said Gove hasn't made it clear what he actually wants to happen with a-levels, and thought it was going to be very tight to deliver whatever it he decides should change by 2015.

She also posed a very interesting question: if AS-levels are going to be the same standard as A-levels, but half the content, should students do six subjects before going to university rather than the traditional three?

[Miss Tickle's bottom]

I'm not qualified in any way to offer an opinion on the best policy for school examinations, so if it was my responsibility to devise a new policy I would have to consult the experts. Sadly, Gove seems as ignorant on the subject as I am, but rather than consult the experts he always adopts the same 'If it was good enough for me, it's good enough for everyone' approach. I really do wonder what damage this man is going to cause.

If his academies continue to break the depressing correlation between postcode and attainment he can lay claim to being our most progressive politician of the past 30 years.

Are you a politician, PJ? I made a quite specific point about one aspect of Gove's responsibilities (examinations) and you defend him by saying that another of his policies might (see Pompski's posts) prove inspirational.
Well played!