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[Mr Dee]

In this country? Supposedly a group of around a dozen ppl. Josh Virasami is a name that crops up alot.

Many of the blms more high profile supporters are wanting more clarity on who actually is pulling the strings plus they want to know where the million quid of donations has gone .

[Sam_Brown]

What do you think about that twitter account I linked to? It was "verified" as being official which is something I thought was only used to sort the fake celeb accounts from the real ones but gives this BLM twitter feed the air of being "legit" which is why it was picked up in the news when they mentioned about wanting to defund the police.

Also you mention "the one adopted by the Premier League and football as a whole" how do you differentiate that from the other people \ BLM groups etc that have slightly different views on what BLM should mean? Some more extreme and some less? It makes it very easy to tar the whole movement with the actions of a few bad eggs and makes it easy for racists to dismiss the whole BLM movement using specific examples.

Two very fair and legit questions SB, I will try to answer them honestly.

On the first, I personally don't support a call for defunding the police. I believe a well run police force is essential for any society. In a Utopian world there would be no need for one but we don't and never will live in a Utopian world. I actually believe there should be more funding for the policing a large chunk of that must go into the work the police do in the community. I think there is hope in campaigns where police, gangs, ex criminals and local councils work together on various initiatives.
I also believe that to have an effective police and it must be reflective of society so I would like to see a more concerted push to get more police personnel from a wider racial scope. The majority of police in our country do an excellent job and the majority are fair and balanced in their views on equality however I know (please respect my reason for not wanted to say how I know) that racism is still very much alive and well amongst some in the policing community.

The second question is such a difficult one to answer. How to differentiate between different representations and interpretations of Black Live Matters. When I see players "Taking the Knee" at the start of games I see that as a "We are all in this together in our fight against racism" which I think is a really powerful message. "Kick it out" and "Show racism the red card" are/were very valuable and put out a very strong message however, because this current stance, by taking the knee, appears to be adopted by all players and therefore will reach more people and open their eyes to what has gone on within the game.

You are correct when you say the actions of a few bad eggs makes it easy for racists to dismiss the whole movement and it would also be correct to say that a few bad eggs within the policing community make it easy for those with more extreme views than mine to dismiss the whole police.

Hope that answers your questions.

I think that's a good analysis and good counter point on the view of the police being analogous with the view of the minority of protesters. I don't really have anything to add apart from I think I agree with pretty much all of that.

[Sam_Brown]

In this country? Supposedly a group of around a dozen ppl. Josh Virasami is a name that crops up alot.

Many of the blms more high profile supporters are wanting more clarity on who actually is pulling the strings plus they want to know where the million quid of donations has gone .

That's my point though. No one really knows. How can one person or a group of people claim they are "BLM"? Surely as a movement it's bigger than one person or one organisation and I take GreenBlue's example that it's down to everyone and every company to do their bit. The example being what the Prem are doing with some of their messaging around the movement. I mean what they are doing and deciding to do isn't directed by "BLM plc" or "Josh Virasami" and ultimately all any of us can do is make our own decisions and actions based on trying to make the world a better place.

[uspompeyfan]

BLM is an American thing? So the concept that there is racial inequities in any other country doesn’t exist?

Naturally you are taking it out of context, but BLM was started in America and the concept was dealing with a predominantly American issue. It was initially based on American policing issues with Black Americans. It has gone from a racial equality movement to a politically motivated one with a different agenda - point in case is the bringing down of statues which now include the Republicans that fought and won freedom from slavery.

I’m sorry but also you’re saying that being English we shouldn’t join the movement that black lives matter? I’m quite flabbergasted by some of your comments to be honest.

Yes. English people on the whole, don't understand the American legal system, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. However, they will jump on the bandwagon because the media pushes it. You just have to look at the countless threads we have had on this board alone relating to gun laws as an example.

The people on this message board have very strong opinions and as I've said countless times, no one will change an opinion on this board, because of a thread. In many cases, the only thing in common is that we follow a football club from a city we were born in or have an alternative personal allegiance to.

I refused to vote on Brexit originally despite the Embassy sending me reminders that I should. I took the stance because I was never going back, and thus, why should I have any say, even if 1 vote doesn't matter overall, in the whole Brexit argument.

It would not surprise me that people have taken a stance on what has been happening in some of the big cities out here because of a media driven hatred of Trump. However, the policing issues are local authority and not federal and while Trump can offer support, it is the local mayors and Governors that allowed the riots to fester.....

[GreenBlue]

The people on this message board have very strong opinions...

Oh no we don't!

[uspompeyfan]

The people on this message board have very strong opinions...

Oh no we don't!

walked into that one.....

[Mr Dee]

The people on this message board have very strong opinions...

Oh no we don't!

Pantomimes cancelled til 2021, mate

[GreenBlue]

The people on this message board have very strong opinions...

Oh no we don't!

Pantomimes cancelled til 2021, mate

Yeah, sorry, forgot about that.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

1773. Unruly mob tired of taxes without say and the odd beating by red coated security, vandalize the harbour, set a few fires, throw other peeps tea into the sea and pull down statues of King George III. Shocking behavior really.

[Sam_Brown]

1773. Unruly mob tired of taxes without say and the odd beating by red coated security, vandalize the harbour, set a few fires, throw other peeps tea into the sea and pull down statues of King George III. Shocking behavior really.

And look at you now!

[uspompeyfan]

1773. Unruly mob tired of taxes without say and the odd beating by red coated security, vandalize the harbour, set a few fires, throw other peeps tea into the sea and pull down statues of King George III. Shocking behavior really.

And look at you now!

Mainly due to the Left trying to change history.

[Sam_Brown]

1773. Unruly mob tired of taxes without say and the odd beating by red coated security, vandalize the harbour, set a few fires, throw other peeps tea into the sea and pull down statues of King George III. Shocking behavior really.

And look at you now!

Mainly due to the Left trying to change history.

Referring to things in absolute terms like “the left” or “the right” does you a disservice I feel as those terms can mean different things to different people. What do you mean by “the left” exactly?

[The Cincinnati Kid]

1773. Unruly mob tired of taxes without say and the odd beating by red coated security, vandalize the harbour, set a few fires, throw other peeps tea into the sea and pull down statues of King George III. Shocking behavior really.

And look at you now!

Mainly due to the Left trying to change history.

Referring to things in absolute terms like “the left” or “the right” does you a disservice I feel as those terms can mean different things to different people. What do you mean by “the left” exactly?

Quite right and indeed the point of the post was, every society that make a change for the better, well, there usually a bit of statue wrecking, burning and looting thrown in. Its what happens when the rest of us don't listen and dismiss others concerns with labels such as "left" Instead of compromising ...even a tad of compromise like say putting General Lee and Jefferson Davis in the Redneck Hall of Fame or the Confederate Museum instead of in front of the seat of govt that's supposed to represent everyone.
I mean really, where would we all be without French head choppers, Cromwell and riotous colonists? Serfs, that's where.
Sure the BLM et al has its issues, but I see plenty of mainstream protests. To label them all as "left'...well....its FOX news talking points innit.
And SB is correct, it does you a disservice.

[GreenBlue]

USPompeyFan is articulate and usually presents his opinions in a reasoned way (even if I disagree with a lot of them) and bases some of his comments on examples or facts (even though they are sometimes debatable facts ) He does however, have a tendency to slightly overuse "the left" in discussions which, to me, weakens his argument. I sometime watch Fox News for car crash or comedy value and it is incredible how quick they are to label anyone or group of people as left. It is cheap reporting and, as has already been mentioned above, when USPF uses it, it does him a disservice.

Describing a particular media outlet as 'left' could be a valid argument if it was put into context. i.e. if the Independent is taken as centre ground then it could be argued that the Guardian is left of centre and the Telegraph is right of centre. However if someone takes Fox News as centre ground then pretty much every other media outlet would be seen as left.

The same goes for for political views. If Trump is regarded as near centrist then it could be argued that anyone left of Trump represents "the left". So when USPF uses the term "the left", try reading it as "the majority" and it makes more sense. I disagree with a lot of what he writes but absolutely support his right to be able to express those opinions.

[GreenBlue]

This kind of sums up what I was trying to say above.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53293542

Just label them all as anarchists, looters, radical left..... A few? yes for sure. All? No.

Dangerous words Mr Trump.