US Congress - The Shutdown

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Very simply put, if congress would have a simple up/down yay/nay vote on continuing to fund the US govt, the bill would pass as enough republicans would vote for it and life would go on.
The republicans will not allow this vote as they control what issues come to the floor as they have a majority.
Thus they have insisted on riding the "defund Obamacare" horse in with the fund the govt package.
This is the only version they will allow a vote on.

One day the gods will provide us with a sensible middle party.

[Milkins]

I still think it's a question of simple humanity. Why anyone would argue against an equitable system of healthcare is beyond me. Constitutions aren't set in stone - sadly some attitudes are.

Seems to me a system of government that allows for total impasse needs a bl**dy good shake up.

[Here comes AFC]

I still think it's a question of simple humanity. Why anyone would argue against an equitable system of healthcare is beyond me. Constitutions aren't set in stone - sadly some attitudes are.

Is this equitable though?
Or is private health care that is compulsory the worst of both worlds?

[Lost in Transportation]

You got to love the Republicans...

Rep. Steve Stockman ‏@SteveWorks4You 15m

Obama issued an order to Park Police to barricade the World War II Memorial to keep disabled vets out But he refuses to enforce the border

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I still think it's a question of simple humanity. Why anyone would argue against an equitable system of healthcare is beyond me. Constitutions aren't set in stone - sadly some attitudes are.

Seems to me a system of government that allows for total impasse needs a bl**dy good shake up.

Well Milkins....it's all very complicated but essentially, Americans have a complete distrust of big govt, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it seems to da man in the street that the other enormous programs run by the govt which would be Social Security (for retirement) Medicare (National medical insurance for those over 65) Medicaid (National medical coverage for the poor/disabled) ...have all been enormous faliures from a financial standpoint that we are unable to afford them due to 100 different reasons.
Thus when Johnny govt comes up with the latest enormus program.....well, thats where we are now.
It's not necessarily about healthcare....its about the very meaning of govts. role in everyday life.

[Earl Grey]

I still think it's a question of simple humanity. Why anyone would argue against an equitable system of healthcare is beyond me. Constitutions aren't set in stone - sadly some attitudes are.

Seems to me a system of government that allows for total impasse needs a bl**dy good shake up.

Well Milkins....it's all very complicated but essentially, Americans have a complete distrust of big govt, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it seems to da man in the street that the other enormous programs run by the govt which would be Social Security (for retirement) Medicare (National medical insurance for those over 65) Medicaid (National medical coverage for the poor/disabled) ...have all been enormous faliures from a financial standpoint that we are unable to afford them due to 100 different reasons.
Thus when Johnny govt comes up with the latest enormus program.....well, thats where we are now.
It's not necessarily about healthcare....its about the very meaning of govts. role in everyday life.

[youtube][/youtube]

[HappyHour@TheBreweryOfLife]

I still think it's a question of simple humanity. Why anyone would argue against an equitable system of healthcare is beyond me. Constitutions aren't set in stone - sadly some attitudes are.

Seems to me a system of government that allows for total impasse needs a bl**dy good shake up.

Well Milkins....it's all very complicated but essentially, Americans have a complete distrust of big govt, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it seems to da man in the street that the other enormous programs run by the govt which would be Social Security (for retirement) Medicare (National medical insurance for those over 65) Medicaid (National medical coverage for the poor/disabled) ...have all been enormous faliures from a financial standpoint that we are unable to afford them due to 100 different reasons.
Thus when Johnny govt comes up with the latest enormus program.....well, thats where we are now.
It's not necessarily about healthcare....its about the very meaning of govts. role in everyday life.

Mmm, I wonder how many of us would favour a health service run by Brussels?...

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I still think it's a question of simple humanity. Why anyone would argue against an equitable system of healthcare is beyond me. Constitutions aren't set in stone - sadly some attitudes are.

Seems to me a system of government that allows for total impasse needs a bl**dy good shake up.

Well Milkins....it's all very complicated but essentially, Americans have a complete distrust of big govt, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it seems to da man in the street that the other enormous programs run by the govt which would be Social Security (for retirement) Medicare (National medical insurance for those over 65) Medicaid (National medical coverage for the poor/disabled) ...have all been enormous faliures from a financial standpoint that we are unable to afford them due to 100 different reasons.
Thus when Johnny govt comes up with the latest enormus program.....well, thats where we are now.
It's not necessarily about healthcare....its about the very meaning of govts. role in everyday life.

[youtube][/youtube]

I thought my point was,...its not really about healthcare. So I'm not sure of the point of a vid explaining why our healthcare is poor.

[Milton End]

Well I think that while Congress moved to try and make a deal, it was the Democrats who refused to budge an inch from their stance. The Republicans were prepared to move a budget to fund every other part of Government except for the funding of Obamacare - the Democrats refused to move from their stance.

Obamacare has been shown to be unworkable in its current form. Democrats still refuse to change it.

Do the board prizes have a 'Most Predictable Post of the Year' category? If so, entries are closed.

Yes, I am a Conservative as most on this board are probably aware. However, you are prepared to listen to left wing biased tv rather than the actual events as they unfolded out here.

Over 85% of Government has been funded. These happen to be the essential areas of Government.

Congress has the responsibility to hold the purse strings and hence has every right to question the non-essential areas of Government when spending is out of control.

Earlier today, I returned from a week in the USA. This included the actual shutdown coverage on all the main US television networks on the evening of 30th September, which I watched in some depth.

The above statements are true. But they represent a very one-sided and misleading view of what actually happened both at the time of the shutdown and the events leading up to it.

It is a fact that Obama was re-elected as President in November 2012 while campaigning for the Affordable Health Care Act that had originally been passed during his first term.

It is a fact that the US Supreme Court ruled in June 2012 that the Act was legal and consistent with the US Constitution.

This is the way that democracy and the law works both in the USA and in many other countries. We accept the will of the people as long as it is legal.

But in spite of the Presidential Election and the US Supreme Court ruling, the Tea Party faction within the US Republican Party has not been prepared to accept this. Some other members of the Republican Party disagreed with this group and have then been threatened with deselection from standing as candidates in future elections by Tea Party members. Some such members have already been deselected as a result of this.

This has then resulted in some leading Republicans becoming frightened for their political lives. They have therefore been reluctant to stand up to the bullying tactics of the Tea Party caucus within the Republicans.

Thus the Republican leader of the House, John Boehner, has had to cope with a powerful faction within his own party that was unwilling to compromise in any circumstances.

The Republican Party is being ruled by fear and by a faction that will stop at nothing to defeat Obama. Frankly, they hate him.

David Gergen is a senior political analyst for CNN and has served as an adviser to four U.S. presidents. He said on US television two nights ago that he had never seen a more rancorous and aggressive approach for many years by any such group. "Driven by a hard-line faction of conservatives, Washington has done something terribly stupid: shutting down the national government. Most of America is aghast," to quote from his recent column on CNN.

These hard-line, right wing fanatics are the people that USPF supports.

The real worry is that the Tea Party are so bent on destroying the Affordable Health Care Act that they will prolong the battle until the 17th October when the US Treasury will run out of funds and the US will default globally on its debts. This will be disastrous for all of us around the world, not just the USA.

It is not just America that is aghast. We should all be appalled by such reckless action by the Tea Party loonies over one bill - however flawed - that could easily threaten us all.

[<dj.>]

Very simply put, if congress would have a simple up/down yay/nay vote on continuing to fund the US govt, the bill would pass as enough republicans would vote for it and life would go on.
The republicans will not allow this vote as they control what issues come to the floor as they have a majority.
Thus they have insisted on riding the "defund Obamacare" horse in with the fund the govt package.
This is the only version they will allow a vote on.

One day the gods will provide us with a sensible middle party.

Isn't that the democrats? You don't have a leftish party.

[<dj.>]

Well I think that while Congress moved to try and make a deal, it was the Democrats who refused to budge an inch from their stance. The Republicans were prepared to move a budget to fund every other part of Government except for the funding of Obamacare - the Democrats refused to move from their stance.

Obamacare has been shown to be unworkable in its current form. Democrats still refuse to change it.

Do the board prizes have a 'Most Predictable Post of the Year' category? If so, entries are closed.

Yes, I am a Conservative as most on this board are probably aware. However, you are prepared to listen to left wing biased tv rather than the actual events as they unfolded out here.

Over 85% of Government has been funded. These happen to be the essential areas of Government.

Congress has the responsibility to hold the purse strings and hence has every right to question the non-essential areas of Government when spending is out of control.

Just how, exactly, does someone who claims to be a Christian want to deny basic healthcare to poor people? I really do not understand this fundamental contradiction.

[uspompeyfan]

And your effort wasn't one-sided....

Earlier today, I returned from a week in the USA. This included the actual shutdown coverage on all the main US television networks on the evening of 30th September, which I watched in some depth.

The above statements are true. But they represent a very one-sided and misleading view of what actually happened both at the time of the shutdown and the events leading up to it. - Well interestingly the rest of your copy doesn't mention one piece of evidence to contradict the events leading up to the shutdown on the day in question. It is still the democrats who refuse to come to the table, while Republicans have moved additional bills forward to try and find resolution. Democrats are all or nothing.

It is a fact that Obama was re-elected as President in November 2012 while campaigning for the Affordable Health Care Act that had originally been passed during his first term. The original bill was passed with less than a day of debating, while the Democrats held all three houses. No Republican has ever voted for the bill, which was over 10,000 pages and even Pelosi agreed that no one would know what was in it till the bill was passed - what kind of common sense passes into law a major piece of legislation, more than 17% of the Nations GDP, without reading it? Since it has been passed, billions of dollars that have been attached to other, non-health related activities that are not essential have been found in the original bill.

Also, Obama didn't run only on the Healthcare Bill. He ran on racial slurs, class warfare and lies (which are now being proved to be lies) and attacking Romney rather than his own successes in the first 4 years. It was the minority vote which won the election for the Democrats - an area that the Republicans were very poor at.

It is a fact that the US Supreme Court ruled in June 2012 that the Act was legal and consistent with the US Constitution. Voted along party lines after Obama had added a Democrat judge to fill a vacancy

This is the way that democracy and the law works both in the USA and in many other countries. We accept the will of the people as long as it is legal. Another thing that you neglected to say - when a law is put into effect, the whole law needs to be put in place. The president has chosen to select which parts of the law should be put in and which should be delayed for a year. Republicans argue that this delay of certain sections of the healthcare law, needs to be voted on through all channels as it changes the fiscal demands on both Government and the people. To avoid this is abuse of Presidential powers.

But in spite of the Presidential Election and the US Supreme Court ruling, the Tea Party faction within the US Republican Party has not been prepared to accept this. Some other members of the Republican Party disagreed with this group and have then been threatened with deselection from standing as candidates in future elections by Tea Party members They said that they would put Conservatives up against them, people that would stand up for Conservative values.. Some such members have already been deselected as a result of this. Voted out in the primaries

This has then resulted in some leading Republicans becoming frightened for their political lives. They have therefore been reluctant to stand up to the bullying tactics of the Tea Party caucus within the Republicans. Standing up for the Constitution is not a bullying tactic. They are doing what they said they'd do when they got elected. Surely if you elected someone who promised a certain stance, you'd expect them to follow through with that promise - unless you prefer those who lie to get into power.

Thus the Republican leader of the House, John Boehner, has had to cope with a powerful faction within his own party that was unwilling to compromise in any circumstances.

The Republican Party is being ruled by fear and by a faction that will stop at nothing to defeat Obama. Frankly, they hate him. I think you'll find it is the Administration's policies that are not liked.

David Gergen is a senior political analyst for CNN and has served as an adviser to four U.S. presidents. He said on US television two nights ago that he had never seen a more rancorous and aggressive approach for many years by any such group. "Driven by a hard-line faction of conservatives, Washington has done something terribly stupid: shutting down the national government. Most of America is aghast," to quote from his recent column on CNN. The Democrats shut it down when they refused to meet for further discussions.

These hard-line, right wing fanatics are the people that USPF supports. People that stand on principal, yes.

The real worry is that the Tea Party are so bent on destroying the Affordable Health Care Act that they will prolong the battle until the 17th October when the US Treasury will run out of funds and the US will default globally on its debts. This will be disastrous for all of us around the world, not just the USA. The ACA has been called a train wreck by three of the biggest unions as well as the Republicans. The majority of polls, even left-slanted ones, show Obamacare to be unpopular with around 60% of the population. This is happening as people become aware of the truth surrounding this bill.

It is not just America that is aghast. We should all be appalled by such reckless action by the Tea Party loonies over one bill - however flawed - that could easily threaten us all.

When the Republicans ran the 2010 elections purely on the Healthcare Bill and fiscal responsibility, they won Congress by a near record margin.

[uspompeyfan]

Just how, exactly, does someone who claims to be a Christian want to deny basic healthcare to poor people? I really do not understand this fundamental contradiction.

Where have I ever said I was against healthcare? I am against a 10,000 page bill that was passed in a day without being read.

I believe that healthcare should be mandated and the power put to the individual States to put it in place. Several years ago Lynn Kessler, a WA State senator put forward the WA State Basic Health as a model for which all States could run a fiscally responsible plan. Lynn Kessler is a Democrat.

People would then get to choose between public or private healthcare. WA State Basic Health ran on a system where the more you earn, the more you pay, but all who applied had access to the benefits.

Put healthcare to the individual States and you'll get better fiscal responsibility and a better understanding of where to put the resources required for the people of that State. Surf happy Hawaii has different needs for instance than a mining heavy Pennsylvania.

Does that clarify my position a bit more?

[pompeypanther]

I don't for one minute pretend to understand what the hell is going on as politics is not my forte, especially USA politics, but:

But in spite of the Presidential Election and the US Supreme Court ruling, the Tea Party faction within the US Republican Party has not been prepared to accept this. Some other members of the Republican Party disagreed with this group and have then been threatened with deselection from standing as candidates in future elections by Tea Party members They said that they would put Conservatives up against them, people that would stand up for Conservative values.. Some such members have already been deselected as a result of this. Voted out in the primaries

Wow, are you the official spin doctor for them? "threatened with deselection " and "put Conservatives up against them" seem very similar to an ordinary mush like me?

[Lost in Transportation]

Well interestingly the rest of your copy doesn't mention one piece of evidence to contradict the events leading up to the shutdown on the day in question. It is still the democrats who refuse to come to the table, while Republicans have moved additional bills forward to try and find resolution. Democrats are all or nothing.

All that activity signifying nothing. Derailing the Affordable Care Act doesn't affect the issues at hand regarding the budget.

The original bill was passed with less than a day of debating, while the Democrats held all three houses.

Yes well, that's called democracy - the citizens of the USA had voted them into control of the three houses. Its called a mandate.

No Republican has ever voted for the bill

Again, this is the result of democratic elections.

which was over 10,000 pages and even Pelosi agreed that no one would know what was in it till the bill was passed - what kind of common sense passes into law a major piece of legislation, more than 17% of the Nations GDP, without reading it? Since it has been passed, billions of dollars that have been attached to other, non-health related activities that are not essential have been found in the original bill.

The market is 17% of the nation's GDP, the bill regulates part of that market's behaviour. As for just discovering that US politicians pork-barrel, I suggest you look at nearly all the bills that go through Congress. Its just normal practice on Capitol Hill.

Also, Obama didn't run only on the Healthcare Bill. He ran on racial slurs, class warfare and lies (which are now being proved to be lies) and attacking Romney rather than his own successes in the first 4 years. It was the minority vote which won the election for the Democrats - an area that the Republicans were very poor at.

Politicians behaving like politicians in an election? Both sides engage in lies and deceit. In the end, the electorate voted Obama back into office.

Voted along party lines after Obama had added a Democrat judge to fill a vacancy

Because no previous US president had selected a Chief Justice to the Supreme Court who reflected their values...

Another thing that you neglected to say - when a law is put into effect, the whole law needs to be put in place. The president has chosen to select which parts of the law should be put in and which should be delayed for a year. Republicans argue that this delay of certain sections of the healthcare law, needs to be voted on through all channels as it changes the fiscal demands on both Government and the people. To avoid this is abuse of Presidential powers.

The legislature votes on laws, the executive enacts those laws. Why are the Republicans questioning the separation of powers?

They said that they would put Conservatives up against them, people that would stand up for Conservative values..

You do realise that there is a bigger electorate that is required to vote?

Standing up for the Constitution is not a bullying tactic. They are doing what they said they'd do when they got elected. Surely if you elected someone who promised a certain stance, you'd expect them to follow through with that promise - unless you prefer those who lie to get into power.

Standing up for the constitution by undermining it and complaining about the electorate not voting the way they should is a strange sort of constitutional defender.

I think you'll find it is the Administration's policies that are not liked.

America isn't called a divided nation for nothing. Some like the Administration, some don't. The ballot box is where this is arbitrated.

The Democrats shut it down when they refused to meet for further discussions.

And the Republicans bear no responsibility in this?

The ACA has been called a train wreck by three of the biggest unions as well as the Republicans. The majority of polls, even left-slanted ones, show Obamacare to be unpopular with around 60% of the population. This is happening as people become aware of the truth surrounding this bill.

Then let it fail and allow the electorate to punish the Democrats for passing the bill. If its so terrible then the Republicans will sweep the houses to see it removed. Have a little patience and trust in the American people.