The Russkis

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Thing is, we're a bit war weary right now and I don't think we have anything like the standing armies in Germany that we used to.
So, what are the continental ninnies going to do if the sht ever hits the fan? I don't think they could raise an army or air force between them and even if they could they are just soooooo slow and clumsy on the reaction front.
Putins move into Ukraine was obviously a reaction to events.....but the speed, skill and efficiency with which it was carried out suggest planning long term awaiting action at the right moment. All these former Soviet nations gave up their nukes in exchange for territorial integrtiy.
They must be regretting that move a bit now.
Ukraine....if you haven't checked yer map book lately, borders Poland, Moldova, Belarus and the former Soviet Baltic states.
If the russkis decided Belarus would be a nice next stop, y'all wouldn't have a political leg to stand on as its currently a corrupt dictatorship and Boris would have a nice pretext for going there.
Then what?
Ya'll need a rapid reaction Euro land/air force in Europe that by now should be moving assets into Poland.
Still, y'all keep dithering with bank accounts and passports and have Merkel issue a finger wagging.
Get some balls!

Its ok Cinc, the yanks with their size tens will have gone stomping in before we need to mobilise aything, did they not learn

anything from the cuban missile crisis, that could have easily escalated into the next world war and so could this.

I guess the yanks have never been good at diplomacy, lets hope they learn some before we all get dragged into something nobody really wants.

Surely though, buy referencing Cuba missile crisis, you prove my point....that was ended by by a strong show of force and will. This crisis is in your backyard......entirly understandable that the euros want to exhaust all diplomatic options....that is the way things sould be done in the modern era. But diplomacy must be backed up with a big stick....and you don't have one! Epecially considering you have caught the normally trigger happy US at a time when the appetite for a gunfight is at an all time lw!...Boris has timed his efforts immpecably

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Still...y'all keep talking and disarming your military....you know best!

That's exactly what the USA are doing.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/ ... IO20140224

It's a bit of a feeble point there RD. The reduction is from egantically ginormously way too large and twice as big as all the other worlds militaries combined....downsized to just enormously too big. Sure, we shall be clipping the dogs toenails but we haven't cut his balls off as all the continental euros have with the possible exception of France.

[Portchester PFC]

Thing is, we're a bit war weary right now and I don't think we have anything like the standing armies in Germany that we used to.
So, what are the continental ninnies going to do if the sht ever hits the fan? I don't think they could raise an army or air force between them and even if they could they are just soooooo slow and clumsy on the reaction front.
Putins move into Ukraine was obviously a reaction to events.....but the speed, skill and efficiency with which it was carried out suggest planning long term awaiting action at the right moment. All these former Soviet nations gave up their nukes in exchange for territorial integrtiy.
They must be regretting that move a bit now.
Ukraine....if you haven't checked yer map book lately, borders Poland, Moldova, Belarus and the former Soviet Baltic states.
If the russkis decided Belarus would be a nice next stop, y'all wouldn't have a political leg to stand on as its currently a corrupt dictatorship and Boris would have a nice pretext for going there.
Then what?
Ya'll need a rapid reaction Euro land/air force in Europe that by now should be moving assets into Poland.
Still, y'all keep dithering with bank accounts and passports and have Merkel issue a finger wagging.
Get some balls!

Its ok Cinc, the yanks with their size tens will have gone stomping in before we need to mobilise aything, did they not learn

anything from the cuban missile crisis, that could have easily escalated into the next world war and so could this.

I guess the yanks have never been good at diplomacy, lets hope they learn some before we all get dragged into something nobody really wants.

Surely though, buy referencing Cuba missile crisis, you prove my point....that was ended by by a strong show of force and will. This crisis is in your backyard......entirly understandable that the euros want to exhaust all diplomatic options....that is the way things sould be done in the modern era. But diplomacy must be backed up with a big stick....and you don't have one! Epecially considering you have caught the normally trigger happy US at a time when the appetite for a gunfight is at an all time lw!...Boris has timed his efforts immpecably

There was a certain amount of diplomacy before the stick came out, we are in a completely different era now and diplomacy should be key, if it is shown that this does not work then fine, reach for the stick, i would think that the UN/Western Europe have plenty big enough stick between them if required, the UN will be the key, there is no country alone in Western Europe that could take on the Russians.

This could easily escalate beyond all proportions and what we don't need is a trigger happy gun slinging nation jumping in and causing WW3, whether they be wearing fur hats or stetsons.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Well, all I'm saying is your stick isn't very handy....thus my point y'all should have a rapid reaction euro force.
Boris is doing nothing but laughing and/or ignoring diplomacy.
And the UN?...really?....they have taken a half century to issue a damning report on NKPR!..... and Russia was on the security council last time I checked.......... and they veto everything.
Look...I'm certainy not suggesting a shooting war. I'm saying y'all better be more prepared for one which will strngthen the diplomatic hand to be played.

[Portchester PFC]

Well, all I'm saying is your stick isn't very handy....thus my point y'all should have a rapid reaction euro force.
Boris is doing nothing but laughing and/or ignoring diplomacy.
And the UN?...really?....they have taken a half century to issue a damning report on NKPR!..... and Russia was on the security council last time I checked.......... and they veto everything.
Look...I'm certainy not suggesting a shooting war. I'm saying y'all better be more prepared for one which will strngthen the diplomatic hand to be played.

Cinc, the yanks are not the only ones who can mobilise military equipment in a rush if they need to, yes, granted that most Western European countries do not have the expansive forces that they used to, there is a reason for that, the world is a lot more stable.

I personally think that this escalation by the Russians was a pure panic move to protect their fleet in Crimea, i dont think even Putin is going to go all Hitler on us and start marching across Western Europe, he say the instability in the country and the potential threat to his assets and chose to protect them.

If he starts grabbing back former soviet states then i am sure that the UN would be rather interested and i don't think in this case their vote to veto would be an issue...

[RubiconCSL]

I bet Krushchev is chuckling in his grave.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Well, all I'm saying is your stick isn't very handy....thus my point y'all should have a rapid reaction euro force.
Boris is doing nothing but laughing and/or ignoring diplomacy.
And the UN?...really?....they have taken a half century to issue a damning report on NKPR!..... and Russia was on the security council last time I checked.......... and they veto everything.
Look...I'm certainy not suggesting a shooting war. I'm saying y'all better be more prepared for one which will strngthen the diplomatic hand to be played.

Cinc, the yanks are not the only ones who can mobilise military equipment in a rush if they need to, yes, granted that most Western European countries do not have the expansive forces that they used to, there is a reason for that, the world is a lot more stable.

I personally think that this escalation by the Russians was a pure panic move to protect their fleet in Crimea, i dont think even Putin is going to go all Hitler on us and start marching across Western Europe, he say the instability in the country and the potential threat to his assets and chose to protect them.

If he starts grabbing back former soviet states then i am sure that the UN would be rather interested and i don't think in this case their vote to veto would be an issue...

All good points but perhaps you are underestimating the genius of Boris. No, of course he isn't going to roll tanks westward over a 500 mile front....he's using the frog in a slow boiling pot of water tactic....little by little and by the time you realise yer in trouble...its too late.
Again...he' grabbed bits of Georgia a few yrs ag...now bits of Ukrane, each time on a relativly valid pretext that stops the west from reacting with strength. Next little bit?....who knows!...maybe a bit of Belarus...a failed state under crooked dictatorship...we wont have a leg to stand on there either.
Of course no single euro nation has the arms but together, they should have a deployable force instead of just having a phone book with London & Washington in it.
btw....Russian oficials on the sanction list currently on twitter laughing

[RubiconCSL]

Right then, we know their weak point we'll block their social media access; that'll wipe the smiles off their faces!

btw....Russian oficials on the sanction list currently on twitter laughing

[RubiconCSL]

It’s only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that there is always a way to solve problems without using violence.

Right then, we know their weak point we'll block their social media access; that'll wipe the smiles off their faces!

btw....Russian oficials on the sanction list currently on twitter laughing

[Pompey1985]

Dead Ukrainian officer now.. And others arrested.

[uspompeyfan]

I find it interesting that everyone sees diplomacy as the key deterrent, however, the result has been laughter by the Russians. Western Europe and the US have bordered on cowardice in the face of bullying from Russia - no strength at all in the diplomacy, especially that of the US.

The Ukranians who wanted closer ties to Europe and a Western style democracy must feel stupid right now as everyone has run for cover.

The Russinas have slowly built up a controlling interest in Europe by providing a high percentage of oil, which is stiffling the European response. The US can't help because they are doing their hardest to return the country to the stone age by preventing oil production on Federal land. Otherwise they could have released oil to Europe to save them from Russian heavy-handedness.

Crimea was lost long before the Russians officially moved in (Moldova might be next). Putin wants the old USSR back and has military power to use, and financial clout too.

If Western Forces showed a military presence, by reinforcing missile bases, bringing in ships for 'exercises' and the same for land forces in Ukraine under the same guise, it would send a message for Putin to stop. Add stricter sanctions for imports and exports so that the Russian people will get discouraged and turn agaisnt their Government - a drop in Putin's popularity would help. However, allowing the Paraolympics to go ahead whilst the Ukranians were claiming they'd been invaded sent the wrong message.

Western leaders, including Obama (don't say he has been strong Cinci) have shown inept weakness and are causing a bigger problem. Where are all the people who mocked Sarah Pailn in 2008 and Romney in 2012 who warned that Russia was a greater geo-political threat? Still wiping the egg from their faces probably.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

well, yer half right...don't know why you have to turn everything into a rep/Dem contest though.
Anyhoo
1. Yer dead wrong on domestic oil production which is at an all time high as our johnny foreigner oil imports are at an all time low.
And anyhoo Its not oil the ruskis give the euros...its gas....and domestic gas production is also at an all time high to the point that prices are so depressed new finds are currently unprofitable to produce....still don't let FACTS get in the way of rantinig on Obama!

2. Obama has been pathetically weak on this issue though to be fair, its a euro lead issue and he has followed their (weak as limp toast) lead

3. Romney has some cred but Sarah Palin?!....give me a break. The woman couldn't find her tits in a sweatsuit let alone find Russia on a map. Shes as dumb as a bag of rocks ...jeez...if you think she would be good for this country I'm not sure I can even argue with you anymore....your obviously insane!

[uspompeyfan]

well, yer half right...don't know why you have to turn everything into a rep/Dem contest though.
Anyhoo

Who says this is Rep / Dem? I mentioned Obama in the same sentence as Western leaders if you read closely.

1. Yer dead wrong on domestic oil production which is at an all time high as our johnny foreigner oil imports are at an all time low.
And anyhoo Its not oil the ruskis give the euros...its gas....and domestic gas production is also at an all time high to the point that prices are so depressed new finds are currently unprofitable to produce....still don't let FACTS get in the way of rantinig on Obama!

Oil production is on private land, not Federal - and those areas are booming. My main point is that oil independence would enable the US to act stronger, and support the Europeans. CNN maintains the Russians are providing oil rather than gas (though Fox mentions gas - so you could well be right)

2. Obama has been pathetically weak on this issue though to be fair, its a euro lead issue and he has followed their (weak as limp toast) lead

Every time Obama warns Putin, he has ignored it. Sanctions on Russian politicians were made by Obama. I am agreeing that he has been pathetically weak.

3. Romney has some cred but Sarah Palin?!....give me a break. The woman couldn't find her tits in a sweatsuit let alone find Russia on a map. Shes as dumb as a bag of rocks ...jeez...if you think she would be good for this country I'm not sure I can even argue with you anymore....your obviously insane!

Palin warned of the dangers of Russia in 2008 so deserves credit in that respect.

[miltoninLA]

Putin has fecked-up the Russian economy and there is nothing like some drum banging to convince the feeble minded that all is OK.
Of course the West looks weak but as some boring old fart once said "Jaw-Jaw is better than War-War".
I suppose we could resurrect the Light Brigade and celebrate as Cossack and Russian reeled from the sabre-stroke; shatter'd and sunder'd.
Or we could impose some sanctions offer modest financial assistance to the Ukraine and wait till the Russians themselves grow tired of their Ozymandias.

[uspompeyfan]

Putin has fecked-up the Russian economy and there is nothing like some drum banging to convince the feeble minded that all is OK.
Of course the West looks weak but as some boring old fart once said "Jaw-Jaw is better than War-War".
I suppose we could resurrect the Light Brigade and celebrate as Cossack and Russian reeled from the sabre-stroke; shatter'd and sunder'd.
Or we could impose some sanctions offer modest financial assistance to the Ukraine and wait till the Russians themselves grow tired of their Ozymandias.

I don't think anyone has said the West should go to war on this. I agree on the sanctions