Referees have feelings too

[Locky_McLockface]

So says Howard Webb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31707618

I had to referee my U18s the other day, since the referee we had been allocated failed to show. It brought it home to me how difficult a job it is - I can only imagine the pressure the Elite Group guys are under, having 2 lots of 11 men each berating you when you give a decision to the other team, plus the managers on the sidelines, plus tens of thousands of people in the crowd, plus millions more on TV, plus the armchair experts in the TV studio, who are quick to be wise after the event.

People really have to realise that until you have referees equipped with video playback (and accept the stop/start nature of the game as a consequence), referees are human, they will make mistakes, and everyone else needs to shut the **** up and accept that fact.

Oh, and if you think you'll be any better, take the training course and prove it.

[Mr Nuts]

I'd like to see punishment of some form for players who scream at refs. Especially if they aren't involved in the incident or aren't the team captain. And even then it should be a discussion not a shouting and swearing match.

[dickinson]

I completely agree with the above comments.

I will agree with them also 'in the minutes 30, 33, 43 and 69.'

We need to introduce video evidence to support the refs IMO.

[Mr Nuts]

Better still only captains can speak to the ref, anyone else gets a yellow card

[Locky_McLockface]

Nuts, they've tried to introduce that. The players ignore it, and the refs don't seem to want to wildly dish out cards, because they then attract further criticism.

It needs to start from the top (ie. the FA), have buy-in from the clubs, and probably even more important, buy-in from the TV companies. When you have Alan ****ing Shearer saying "Look, the referee's got a perfect line of sight, I can't understand how he made that decision", the world and his wife accept that he knows what he's talking about.

In the local leagues, if we, as managers, make critical comments about referees which are published (eg Facebook), we are fined, or suspended. It's been introduced as a measure to try to retain as many referees as possible, bearing in mind that many referees in the Portsmouth Youth Football League are themselves children and therefore very sensitive to criticism. That kind of thing needs to be introduced at the top as well, and for it to be enforced.

[Pompey Penguin]

Barney Ronay not my favourite journalist, but this is worth a read on the subject of pundits and referees.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blo ... t-referees

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Hmmmmm

I reckon refs deserve all the stick they get myself.
1. They allow players to mouth off to them, They could dish out bookings for dissent, conduct etc...they don't. It would only take a pre season statement and a game or 2 to make the point. They have allowed the culture of disrespect you just don't see in other sports.
2. They don't come out and explain key decisions after the game
3. As a pro or manager, You can't critique them after the game lest you get fined
4. How many match reports have we had this season alone that said how poor the ref was.....lower league refs are ****

[Locky_McLockface]

Barney Ronay not my favourite journalist, but this is worth a read on the subject of pundits and referees.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blo ... t-referees

Pretty much what I just said, isn't it?

[Locky_McLockface]

Hmmmmm

I reckon refs deserve all the stick they get myself.
1. They allow players to mouth off to them, They could dish out bookings for dissent, conduct etc...they don't. It would only take a pre season statement and a game or 2 to make the point. They have allowed the culture of disrespect you just don't see in other sports.
2. They don't come out and explain key decisions after the game
3. As a pro or manager, You can't critique them after the game lest you get fined
4. How many match reports have we had this season alone that said how poor the ref was.....lower league refs are ****

To a certain extent, you are right, however the problem then becomes that this whole "referees must be perfect, and never make a mistake" mindset slides down the football pyramid until you reach kiddies' Sunday league stuff, and suddenly you have adults verbally abusing 14 year old boys who happen to be wearing a black top and black shorts.

[dickinson]

People really have to realise that until you have referees equipped with video playback (and accept the stop/start nature of the game as a consequence)

Disagree with you on this one point only. For example,when a penalty is awarded, a player sent off, etc, the conflagration that follows by the penalised team to the referee-the pushing, the shouting, invasion of personal space, aggression is time consuming and becoming predictably boring. It would take a fourth match official 10 seconds to make the decision. Playbacks would take time but in my opinion less time that it already takes. The fourth official would be more able to make the right decision than the wrong. I believe it would also cut out diving in the box.
The decision would add to the excitement as it does when used in other sports.

[Portchester PFC]

Its the same with diving, if the refs start booking players for getting involved in stuff that is nothing to do with them, abusing them and general disrespectfull behaviour then the cards will uild up, they will miss games, probably get fined and the clubs will soon get fed up with losing their players on a regular occurrence.

If the refs continue to ignore the issue it will only continue and probably get worse.

In rugby, the captain alone approaches the ref, takes his talking too and then walks off, because there is respect.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Hmmmmm

I reckon refs deserve all the stick they get myself.
1. They allow players to mouth off to them, They could dish out bookings for dissent, conduct etc...they don't. It would only take a pre season statement and a game or 2 to make the point. They have allowed the culture of disrespect you just don't see in other sports.
2. They don't come out and explain key decisions after the game
3. As a pro or manager, You can't critique them after the game lest you get fined
4. How many match reports have we had this season alone that said how poor the ref was.....lower league refs are ****

To a certain extent, you are right, however the problem then becomes that this whole "referees must be perfect, and never make a mistake" mindset slides down the football pyramid until you reach kiddies' Sunday league stuff, and suddenly you have adults verbally abusing 14 year old boys who happen to be wearing a black top and black shorts.

But does your slippery slope not already happen? Anyhoo...you can control sunday league parent abuse by yellow carding their kids.
imo the lack of ref respect at lower levels is simply due to the lack of ref respect we see on tv....which is their own fault for allowing it.
You want respect?....nobody gives it away.....go out and earn it by booking for dissent, accepting a respectful critique post game and making yourself available to explain your decisions. Instead we get the ridiculous system where we see Mourhino unable to critique obvious errors and has to do a post match verbal dance... and no forthcoming explanation as to how the ref sees it... and fines for any pro that dares to speak out.

[Locky_McLockface]

But does your slippery slope not already happen? Anyhoo...you can control sunday league parent abuse by yellow carding their kids.
imo the lack of ref respect at lower levels is simply due to the lack of ref respect we see on tv....which is their own fault for allowing it.
You want respect?....nobody gives it away.....go out and earn it by booking for dissent, accepting a respectful critique post game and making yourself available to explain your decisions. Instead we get the ridiculous system where we see Mourhino unable to critique obvious errors and has to do a post match verbal dance... and no forthcoming explanation as to how the ref sees it... and fines for any pro that dares to speak out.

You can't card the kid for abuse from the parent - the kid has done nothing wrong. Furthermore, if you did, it will be more likely to lead to the parent accosting the child-referee after the game, and, as happened a couple of years ago in Southampton, the child-referee being physically assaulted on the pitch during the game. Seriously.

With regard to the referees not constantly carding players for dissent, as I said earlier, they would simply be even more criticised for it. Whenever there has been more than 3 or 4 cards in a game, you have those to$$ers Shearer, Savage, et al pontificating from the comfort of the studio about how the referee just lost control of the game, and wouldn't let it flow by constantly showing cards. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

IMHO, as the parent of a child-referee, there has to be a sea-change in attitude, that starts with the FA proclaiming that it referee-abuse will no longer be tolerated, and then following words with deeds. At local level, if a ref is abused, they do something about it. But the ref shouldn't be abused in the first place. And that will only stop when parents stop seeing referees being constantly criticised at Prem level, and thinking that referees are fair-game.

[Here comes AFC]

People really have to realise that until you have referees equipped with video playback (and accept the stop/start nature of the game as a consequence)

Disagree with you on this one point only. For example,when a penalty is awarded, a player sent off, etc, the conflagration that follows by the penalised team to the referee-the pushing, the shouting, invasion of personal space, aggression is time consuming and becoming predictably boring. It would take a fourth match official 10 seconds to make the decision. Playbacks would take time but in my opinion less time that it already takes. The fourth official would be more able to make the right decision than the wrong. I believe it would also cut out diving in the box.
The decision would add to the excitement as it does when used in other sports.

But what about all the times the ref decides no offence has taken place so play continues?

No other sport uses TV decisions during live play.

[dickinson]

AFC, yes good point.

Like the goal line technology, you'd have to be specific as to what parts of the game you introduce the technology. I would suggest the major calls only, Eg penalty decisions to be reversed? Sending off's? Offsides when a goal has been scored? On each occasion the game has been stopped.

You could restrict the number objections to a decision to a team like cricket. Maybe two per game per team? If it takes 10 seconds. Stop the clock. No time wasted, whereas there is under the current system when players throw their toys out of the cot and surround the referee.

These are just suggestions AFC.

Football is lagging behind in it's use of technology in supporting referees, but there again, why should that surprise me, it is run by FIFA.

On another point I would have a referee behind each goal to to look at shirt pulling/holding at corners. (Although I'm not convinced that the lino and ref don't see it happening, they just ignore it IMO.)

The aforementioned may have the effect of improving the players behaviour which I would hope filter down to a grassroots level.