Referees have feelings too

[Here comes AFC]

On each occasion the game has been stopped.

So Pompey think they have a nailed on penalty, ref waves play on, so we can't appeal?

There are only two fair ways to introduce this in football.
a) nothing
b) game gets stopped on appeal

Otherwise you get only a subset of decisions to get appealed and depending on the refereees mindset
1) make no decisions then it can't be reviewed
2) awsard a drop ball at every situation and see what TV says

[dickinson]

AFC, yes good point.

Like the goal line technology, you'd have to be specific as to what parts of the game you introduce the technology. I would suggest the major calls only, Eg penalty decisions to be reversed? Sending off's? Offsides when a goal has been scored? On each occasion the game has been stopped.

You could restrict the number objections to a decision to a team like cricket. Maybe two per game per team? If it takes 10 seconds. Stop the clock. No time wasted, whereas there is under the current system when players throw their toys out of the cot and surround the referee.

These are just suggestions AFC.

Football is lagging behind in it's use of technology in supporting referees, but there again, why should that surprise me, it is run by FIFA.

On another point I would have a referee behind each goal to to look at shirt pulling/holding at corners. (Although I'm not convinced that the lino and ref don't see it happening, they just ignore it IMO.)

The aforementioned may have the effect of improving the players behaviour which I would hope filter down to a grassroots level.

I did say that these were just suggestions, however AFC you have picked out the example of a penalty. I agree if the referee says play on it would be difficult to stop the game, but I was thinking more in terms of reversing a referees decision on his/her awarding the penalty when maybe a player has cheated by diving.

Anything that ensures the decision is more accurate and assists the referee has got to be better.

AFC I'd be interested in you objections to my other suggestions?

[Here comes AFC]

AFC, yes good point.

Like the goal line technology, you'd have to be specific as to what parts of the game you introduce the technology. I would suggest the major calls only, Eg penalty decisions to be reversed? Sending off's? Offsides when a goal has been scored? On each occasion the game has been stopped.

You could restrict the number objections to a decision to a team like cricket. Maybe two per game per team? If it takes 10 seconds. Stop the clock. No time wasted, whereas there is under the current system when players throw their toys out of the cot and surround the referee.

These are just suggestions AFC.

Football is lagging behind in it's use of technology in supporting referees, but there again, why should that surprise me, it is run by FIFA.

On another point I would have a referee behind each goal to to look at shirt pulling/holding at corners. (Although I'm not convinced that the lino and ref don't see it happening, they just ignore it IMO.)

The aforementioned may have the effect of improving the players behaviour which I would hope filter down to a grassroots level.

I did say that these were just suggestions, however AFC you have picked out the example of a penalty. I agree if the referee says play on it would be difficult to stop the game, but I was thinking more in terms of reversing a referees decision on his/her awarding the penalty when maybe a player has cheated by diving.

Anything that ensures the decision is more accurate and assists the referee has got to be better.

AFC I'd be interested in you objections to my other suggestions?

I object to any system that says only certain 'more important' decisions in a class can be reviewed. Either all penalty decisions are open to review or none, either all offsides are open to review or none

[Mr Nuts]

Each manager allowed 1 appeal per half and can use it however they see fit. Obviously they'd use it wisely only having the one And the game wouldn't be stopped left right and centre. Job done.

[Here comes AFC]

Each manager allowed 1 appeal per half and can use it however they see fit. Obviously they'd use it wisely only having the one And the game wouldn't be stopped left right and centre. Job done.

The most petty, insulting sop to fans intelligence ever.

Either we use technology to reduce mistakes in the game or we accept mistakes happen. To have a system that says only 1 out of 15/20/30 mistakes in a half have the chance of being corrected, and you've got to guess which is the most serious, will ruin the game.

[Locky_McLockface]

I personally feel that we all have to accept that mistakes will happen, and that they will even themselves out over the course of a season - there is no way that goal line technology and video replay will filter down to grassroots.

I am quite surprised that FIFA have been so against introducing technology - think of all the bribes that they could receive from the companies competing to have their video playback system introduced......

[dickinson]

I personally feel that we all have to accept that mistakes will happen, and that they will even themselves out over the course of a season.

That old chestnut, I thought it was just Manure supporters who just said that. Lockman you are deluding yourself if you think that decisions even themselves out.

[Locky_McLockface]

I personally feel that we all have to accept that mistakes will happen, and that they will even themselves out over the course of a season.

That old chestnut, I thought it was just Manure supporters who just said that. Lockman you are deluding yourself if you think that decisions even themselves out.

Presumably because there's an establishment conspiracy against Portsmouth FC?

Working on the basis that there isn't, (because, ya know, why would there be?) then you have to assume that a referee making a mistake is a random thing. Random things don't follow patterns, that's why they're called random. Patterns don't even out over time. Random things do. There's a whole load of statistical theories that show that to be the case.

[dickinson]

I personally feel that we all have to accept that mistakes will happen, and that they will even themselves out over the course of a season.

That old chestnut, I thought it was just Manure supporters who just said that. Lockman you are deluding yourself if you think that decisions even themselves out.

Presumably because there's an establishment conspiracy against Portsmouth FC?

Working on the basis that there isn't, (because, ya know, why would there be?) then you have to assume that a referee making a mistake is a random thing. Random things don't follow patterns, that's why they're called random. Patterns don't even out over time. Random things do. There's a whole load of statistical theories that show that to be the case.

Your first point is a bit childish Lockman, thought better of you.

As to your second point, in a previous life I was a professional mathematician, I understand probability, sample size, skew and bias. I would suggest to you that bias does have an influence in football. The sample size is important. For example, for your assumption top be correct then Sir Alex Ferguson did not influence any decision the referee has made, that crucial decisions were not made even though 60,000 home fans were beying for a decision to be made in their favour. That certain teams never bully a referee in making a decision more than another,referees are always consistent ( for this to have merit there would need to be a wider range than just 46 matches, greater accuracy can be obtained with a larger sample size), I could go on. These influences -given only 46 matches- must develop a pronounced skew over the course of a season, it is unthinkable to consider otherwise. There is a link below which you may find of interest in evaluating the human errors made by referees., I believe human errors/influences do indeed create an imbalance in bias over a season.

Although the link below is also biased in favour of Arsenal, hardly surprising.

[urlhttp://untold-arsenal.com/archives/33028][/url]

[pompeymick]

We cannot keep on criticising Refs without also pointing the finger at the players and management. It would seem that deceiving the Ref and manipulation of the rules is an accepted part of the game nowadays. Too many players look for a free kick as their first option , and the antics of the 'injured' player are mainly deserving of an oscar, how many times do we witness a player writhing on the pitch needing the attention of a whole paramedic team miraculously doing a Usain Bolt as soon as he returns to the pitch.
Any tackle involving the back leg of a player should be deemed fair, they all leave the back leg dangling to make contact and effectively it is them that is kicking the tackler, The art of diving was analysed by Portsmouth University and the conclusion was that any 'dying swan' falls are faked, a true trip results in the arms outstretched in front to save the faller from further injury, not an arched back with arms in the air.
Yellow cards should be replaced by sin bins, 5mins in the bin will incur wrath from fellow players on the pitch and an immediate bonus for the opposition, whereas yellow cards just leads to days off and another team getting the benefit.

[Mr Nuts]

Each manager allowed 1 appeal per half and can use it however they see fit. Obviously they'd use it wisely only having the one And the game wouldn't be stopped left right and centre. Job done.

The most petty, insulting sop to fans intelligence ever.

Either we use technology to reduce mistakes in the game or we accept mistakes happen. To have a system that says only 1 out of 15/20/30 mistakes in a half have the chance of being corrected, and you've got to guess which is the most serious, will ruin the game.

No, stopping the game 30 times a half will ruin it.

[Here comes AFC]

Each manager allowed 1 appeal per half and can use it however they see fit. Obviously they'd use it wisely only having the one And the game wouldn't be stopped left right and centre. Job done.

The most petty, insulting sop to fans intelligence ever.

Either we use technology to reduce mistakes in the game or we accept mistakes happen. To have a system that says only 1 out of 15/20/30 mistakes in a half have the chance of being corrected, and you've got to guess which is the most serious, will ruin the game.

No, stopping the game 30 times a half will ruin it.

So we accept mistakes happen and wait for technology that does not interrupt the flow if the game to become available. Not introduce pantomime of "one appeal and one appeal only"

[Mr Nuts]

I can deal with it. Referees make mistakes as do players, managers, and club owners.

[Locky_McLockface]

I personally feel that we all have to accept that mistakes will happen, and that they will even themselves out over the course of a season.

That old chestnut, I thought it was just Manure supporters who just said that. Lockman you are deluding yourself if you think that decisions even themselves out.

Presumably because there's an establishment conspiracy against Portsmouth FC?

Working on the basis that there isn't, (because, ya know, why would there be?) then you have to assume that a referee making a mistake is a random thing. Random things don't follow patterns, that's why they're called random. Patterns don't even out over time. Random things do. There's a whole load of statistical theories that show that to be the case.

Your first point is a bit childish Lockman, thought better of you.

As to your second point, in a previous life I was a professional mathematician, I understand probability, sample size, skew and bias. I would suggest to you that bias does have an influence in football. The sample size is important. For example, for your assumption top be correct then Sir Alex Ferguson did not influence any decision the referee has made, that crucial decisions were not made even though 60,000 home fans were beying for a decision to be made in their favour. That certain teams never bully a referee in making a decision more than another,referees are always consistent ( for this to have merit there would need to be a wider range than just 46 matches, greater accuracy can be obtained with a larger sample size), I could go on. These influences -given only 46 matches- must develop a pronounced skew over the course of a season, it is unthinkable to consider otherwise. There is a link below which you may find of interest in evaluating the human errors made by referees., I believe human errors/influences do indeed create an imbalance in bias over a season.

Although the link below is also biased in favour of Arsenal, hardly surprising.

http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/33028]

I could see that you might have a point if the same referee was officiating for the same team every week. Clearly they do not. That first referee's bias is balanced by the next referee's bias against your next opponent.

Some referees will be influenced by SAF, some will be more "bl**dy-minded" and be influenced against SAF, just to be awkward. There is a balancing factor right away.

Ultimately, though, every referee goes into a game wanting to be as impartial as they can. Whether it's my son refereeing a U11 game on a Sunday, or Martin Atkinson doing Manure v Chelski, they all want to do the job right. Yes they make mistakes, we all do that and to get back to the original point of the thread, we all need to change out attitude towards them.

That is all.

[Earl Grey]

Ultimately, though, every referee goes into a game wanting to be as impartial as they can.
Yes they make mistakes, .......... we all need to change out attitude towards them.

I'd say MOST referees go into a game trying to be impartial.....not EVERY ref.
You'll never change my attitude towards Kevin Friend. The **** was definitely anti-Pompey and, although I take your point that another ref may be pro-Pompey so it evens out over a season, it doesn't make me respect Kevin Friend any more.

Hate the bugger....even Uncle Avram, when he was our manager, felt moved to go out onto the pitch and berate him publicly (which is probably only going to make him even worse). See article below.....Uncle Avram got into hot water as a result.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... portsmouth

And although I largely agree with you the stats show that Man U went for God knows how many seasons without a single penalty against them so that is a bias of a kind.

Did you go to that League Cup game at Old Trafford when we had three cast-iron appeals turned down.....back when Awfs was playing?

No doubt the refs weren't themselves trying to be kind to Man U but.........