Brexit
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- Mick Channon
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Brexit
For those who voted leave in the referendum if there was another vote to include the option of remain would you change your mind ?
For those who didnt vote would you vote if given a second chance ?
For those who didnt vote would you vote if given a second chance ?
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- Kev the Kitman
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Re: Brexit
As the referendum offered the chance to remain, why should there be another vote. We did not vote for a deal, either, we voted to leave. That`s Full Stop.
- richisbradders
- Alan Knight
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Re: Brexit
I feel you are fighting a losing battle by asking this questionitsaintfunny wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:05 pm For those who voted leave in the referendum if there was another vote to include the option of remain would you change your mind ?
For those who didnt vote would you vote if given a second chance ?
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- Collins Mbesuma
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Re: Brexit
The government we’re voted in to have a referendum - more people voted to leave than stay - should be end of story. The high majority of politicians represent themselves and not the community they represent. Left UK a year ago hoping that when I returned it would have been sorted out but the bad losers, whingers, whiners are still trying to overturn the outcome of the vote of the majority.
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- Kev the Kitman
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Re: Brexit
For the 'full stoppers', how bad an impact would Brexit have to make on the economy and society for you change your mind? If there were a million job losses? Food shortages? Problems flying to and from Europe? Shortages of medicine? Less collaboration in national defence? A recession?
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- Billy The Boot Boy
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Re: Brexit
Do you mean the same sort of absolute economic disaster and recession that was strongly forecast to happen immediately after the vote?... and chips wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:39 am For the 'full stoppers', how bad an impact would Brexit have to make on the economy and society for you change your mind? If there were a million job losses? Food shortages? Problems flying to and from Europe? Shortages of medicine? Less collaboration in national defence? A recession?
- RubiconCSL
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Re: Brexit
Lots of ifs and clearly written by a remainer, assuming you can't possibly be wrong and that those scenarios have to occur. In the end, nobody knows. If it was clear and obvious, then the so called experts would all agree - which they don't.
As has been said above, there were predictions of instant collapse of the economy if the vote was leave. I haven't seen that quite yet.
As is normal, whether one voted leave or remain, whatever news snippets pop up to back your preconceived beliefs, you'll grab on to them as proof you were right.
Whether it all goes pear shaped or not, (even then) no-one can say whether it was the right move, as no-one can tell for sure what would have happened if the vote had gone the other way, as there are so many moving parts.
We've had recessions while being in the EU, we'll have recessions when out of the EU.
We've had high and low unemployment when in the EU, we'll probably see both when out of the EU.
Etc. etc.
You could as easily reverse the question, had the vote been remain and aimed it at the remain voters.
It's a shame there had to be a vote. But it's also a shame so many people saw/experienced/perceived enough problems to want out. If the EU was so good, then the vote wouldn't have mattered and probably wouldn't even have been wanted in the first place.
As has been said above, there were predictions of instant collapse of the economy if the vote was leave. I haven't seen that quite yet.
As is normal, whether one voted leave or remain, whatever news snippets pop up to back your preconceived beliefs, you'll grab on to them as proof you were right.
Whether it all goes pear shaped or not, (even then) no-one can say whether it was the right move, as no-one can tell for sure what would have happened if the vote had gone the other way, as there are so many moving parts.
We've had recessions while being in the EU, we'll have recessions when out of the EU.
We've had high and low unemployment when in the EU, we'll probably see both when out of the EU.
Etc. etc.
You could as easily reverse the question, had the vote been remain and aimed it at the remain voters.
It's a shame there had to be a vote. But it's also a shame so many people saw/experienced/perceived enough problems to want out. If the EU was so good, then the vote wouldn't have mattered and probably wouldn't even have been wanted in the first place.
... and chips wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:39 am For the 'full stoppers', how bad an impact would Brexit have to make on the economy and society for you change your mind? If there were a million job losses? Food shortages? Problems flying to and from Europe? Shortages of medicine? Less collaboration in national defence? A recession?
- Portchester PFC
- Kev the Kitman
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Re: Brexit
Regardless of which box you ticked, there was a public referendum, people voted in a democracy to either leave or remain, one side won. You can not go back now and demand another vote because one side lost, it makes a complete mockery of a democratic vote.
Let’s say the remain team force another vote and they win, what’s going to happen, apart from some riots, the leave team are going to demand another vote and so the circus continues.
I think the result of the vote should be respected, then the government should get on and take their fingers out their arses and get on with delivering what was voted for and not letting their own interests deter from what the people who voted them in and pay their way decided.
Let’s say the remain team force another vote and they win, what’s going to happen, apart from some riots, the leave team are going to demand another vote and so the circus continues.
I think the result of the vote should be respected, then the government should get on and take their fingers out their arses and get on with delivering what was voted for and not letting their own interests deter from what the people who voted them in and pay their way decided.
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- Sir Conan Doyle
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Re: Brexit
Regardless of how anyone voted, it looks likely that any deal that may be struck will be voted down by parliament and we'll have a hard Brexit. Whether MPs should have the right to make that decision is another debate, but we'd not have been in this situation if it had been made clear in the referendum that the country would get a second vote once the politicians had finished their negotiations (and the implications thereof could be better assessed), and at that time the choice would be to either stick, twist or bust (remain, accept the deal on offer, or leave with no deal). My guess is that such a position would have led to a larger majority for 'leave' in the original vote. I for one may have voted differently had that been the case, but it could also have made it even more difficult to negotiate a good deal. We are where we are, and sooner or later we'll know the consequences - good, bad or indifferent.
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- Billy The Boot Boy
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Re: Brexit
Well Labour have stated categorically that the will vote down ANY deal that is put forward and then push for a general election. Sorry but that's not democracy that's just labour trying to get back in power by any means necessary.
I voted to stay and still think that's the best option, however that isn't an option anymore
I voted to stay and still think that's the best option, however that isn't an option anymore
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- Kev the Kitman
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Re: Brexit
You've summed up the biggest problem with having no second referendum. The first one was vague. There was no manifest attached to it and members of the Vote Leave side pouted a range of ideas without coherence and without much evidence. There was no clear message on:RubiconCSL wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:25 am Lots of ifs and clearly written by a remainer, assuming you can't possibly be wrong and that those scenarios have to occur. In the end, nobody knows. If it was clear and obvious, then the so called experts would all agree - which they don't.
the single market: Norway? Switzerland? Canada?
the irish border and how it might impact the peace process
freedom of movement - who, how and where?
all those pesky industry bodies who produce agreements for for nuclear, pharmaceuticals or finance?
the WTO rules in the case of no deal
How long writing a new trade deal would take (minister, even after the vote, claimed to be able to make deals with individual EU countries)
The impact of different agreements on these things could be huge and potentially lead to recession and job losses. People don't want a say on the biggest thing the UK has done since joining the EU?
I'll ask again as nobody has answered the question: how bad an impact would there have to be to change your mind?
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- Kev the Kitman
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Re: Brexit
How is having a general election and putting forward a Brexit manifesto for people to vote on undemocratic?portchesterblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:04 pm Well Labour have stated categorically that the will vote down ANY deal that is put forward and then push for a general election. Sorry but that's not democracy that's just labour trying to get back in power by any means necessary.
I voted to stay and still think that's the best option, however that isn't an option anymore
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- Billy The Boot Boy
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Re: Brexit
Because they backed us having the vote to l3ave in the first place, the referendum result was we leave. The government are trying to make that happen and if they come come back with a deal, whatever it is labour will vote against it. That isn't representing the people that's just being in opposition and rejecting whatever the government does for the sake of it
- Selsey Bill
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- Guy Whittingham
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Re: Brexit
That it is.
You can't have a Canada deal (Free Trade Agreement) without having something different in place for the Island of Ireland.
You can't have something different for the Island of Ireland because the Unionists will object (rightly).
You can't screw over the Unionists and vote for an FTA because the Irish government will veto it (rightly) because an FTA or No Deal inflicts similar levels of economic harm as well as social harm so where's their incentive?
So Canada is dead in the water no matter now many pluses you add to Canada.
The next possibilities are the Norway variations. Norway is in the Single Market but not the Customs Union so that's your basic Norway. You then have Norway+ which is being members of both the Single Market and Custom Union. The third option is an Inverse Norway which is membership of the Customs Union but not the Single Market.
Any membership of the Single Market requires accepting the rules of the club including the Four Pillars of Freedom of Movement. There aren't enough MPs in Parliament willing to vote for that so Norway and Norway+ are not doable.
The Labour Party kind of supports an Inverse Norway but there's a problem here. In reality, you would have to accept a lot of Single Market rules in order to make Inverse Norway work as the Single Market and the Customs Union work together. An Inverse Norway would effectively mean Norway+.
So then there's No Deal which will create hard borders and frictional trade.
MPs don't want to vote for frictional trade as it will destroy the supply chains of companies and mean significant economic dislocation and increased costs for companies that use Just In Time methods to maximise efficiencies.
So of the three possible Brexit strategies, there is not sufficient support for any of them. Round and round we go. When we stop nobody knows.
Watching wheels spin and dust settle.
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