Men’s football female presenters and pundits

[GreenBlue]

To those that are upset by female pundits because they are not males, non-white people because they are not white, other religions because they are not Cristian or LGBT because they are not straight.... I'd suggest that you are out of touch with the modern world and are stuck in the past. Things have moved on and they are not going back. Of course it is up to you who you like or don't like and you are absolutely entitled to your views for whatever reason you hold them but most youngsters are not blinded by any of the above and they are our future. My views... others are available but I do feel grateful that I don't have to prejudge someone on predefined criteria.

[Blue Walter]

To those that are upset by female pundits because they are not males, non-white people because they are not white, other religions because they are not Cristian or LGBT because they are not straight.... I'd suggest that you are out of touch with the modern world and are stuck in the past. Things have moved on and they are not going back. Of course it is up to you who you like or don't like and you are absolutely entitled to your views for whatever reason you hold them but most youngsters are not blinded by any of the above and they are our future. My views... others are available but I do feel grateful that I don't have to prejudge someone on predefined criteria.

I think you are exaggerating this issue somewhat, speaking for myself that is. I am not upset by any of the aforementioned you have listed or their right to exist. What I don't like is this continuous over representation of the various minority groups which, I assume, is to convince us of whatever the message is that they are trying to preach. I know that people are different and there are different groups of people that are not the same as the majority of the population. I don't need an exaggerated campaign to tell me that. I recognise that all of us have the right to live our lives the way we choose, within the law of course, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else's way of life. So I suggest you get off your high horse and come to terms with the fact that not everyone will agree with you.

[StMonkton]

I know you are treating this thoughtfully BW and clearly feel strongly. My question is who are the ‘they’ who are doing all this preaching?

[GreenBlue]

To those that are upset by female pundits because they are not males, non-white people because they are not white, other religions because they are not Cristian or LGBT because they are not straight.... I'd suggest that you are out of touch with the modern world and are stuck in the past. Things have moved on and they are not going back. Of course it is up to you who you like or don't like and you are absolutely entitled to your views for whatever reason you hold them but most youngsters are not blinded by any of the above and they are our future. My views... others are available but I do feel grateful that I don't have to prejudge someone on predefined criteria.

I think you are exaggerating this issue somewhat, speaking for myself that is. I am not upset by any of the aforementioned you have listed or their right to exist. What I don't like is this continuous over representation of the various minority groups which, I assume, is to convince us of whatever the message is that they are trying to preach. I know that people are different and there are different groups of people that are not the same as the majority of the population. I don't need an exaggerated campaign to tell me that. I recognise that all of us have the right to live our lives the way we choose, within the law of course, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else's way of life. So I suggest you get off your high horse and come to terms with the fact that not everyone will agree with you.

Forgive me BW if I have misread your, and other's views on this thread but I assumed that when you wrote...

."Well I am glad I am not the only one that gets irritated by this. It's obviously part of the woke agenda by the BBC, and other channels. Not only do they shoe in as many women as possible it is the best time to be someone of colour to get into television at the moment, especially in tv adverts."

... you were suggesting that you did have an issue with the aforementioned groups.

I'd also like to inform you that I don't need to be told that not everyone will agree with me as unfortunately I have heard and seen that fact way to often for my liking. And as for being on my 'high horse', as you put it, I have absolutely no intention of getting down if that entails not calling out things that I believe to be wrong.

You may, and do [as you have informed me numerous times] consider me to be 'woke' and I'd accept that my views are considerably different to your own but they are formed from first hand experiences not from what I have read in populist news rags.

Didn't you once say that your Grandchild called you out for your outdated views? I genuinely don't believe you would treat any minority badly and I think you are probably a good person but, in my opinion, a number of your views do not belong in the 21st century.

[Blue Walter]

To those that are upset by female pundits because they are not males, non-white people because they are not white, other religions because they are not Cristian or LGBT because they are not straight.... I'd suggest that you are out of touch with the modern world and are stuck in the past. Things have moved on and they are not going back. Of course it is up to you who you like or don't like and you are absolutely entitled to your views for whatever reason you hold them but most youngsters are not blinded by any of the above and they are our future. My views... others are available but I do feel grateful that I don't have to prejudge someone on predefined criteria.

I think you are exaggerating this issue somewhat, speaking for myself that is. I am not upset by any of the aforementioned you have listed or their right to exist. What I don't like is this continuous over representation of the various minority groups which, I assume, is to convince us of whatever the message is that they are trying to preach. I know that people are different and there are different groups of people that are not the same as the majority of the population. I don't need an exaggerated campaign to tell me that. I recognise that all of us have the right to live our lives the way we choose, within the law of course, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else's way of life. So I suggest you get off your high horse and come to terms with the fact that not everyone will agree with you.

Forgive me BW if I have misread your, and other's views on this thread but I assumed that when you wrote...

."Well I am glad I am not the only one that gets irritated by this. It's obviously part of the woke agenda by the BBC, and other channels. Not only do they shoe in as many women as possible it is the best time to be someone of colour to get into television at the moment, especially in tv adverts."

... you were suggesting that you did have an issue with the aforementioned groups.

I'd also like to inform you that I don't need to be told that not everyone will agree with me as unfortunately I have heard and seen that fact way to often for my liking. And as for being on my 'high horse', as you put it, I have absolutely no intention of getting down if that entails not calling out things that I believe to be wrong.

You may, and do [as you have informed me numerous times] consider me to be 'woke' and I'd accept that my views are considerably different to your own but they are formed from first hand experiences not from what I have read in populist news rags.

Didn't you once say that your Grandchild called you out for your outdated views? I genuinely don't believe you would treat any minority badly and I think you are probably a good person but, in my opinion, a number of your views do not belong in the 21st century.

Yes you are right on several counts I suppose. One of my Grandchildren does think I am a bit racist. That isn't helped with me 'laying it on a bit thick' to wind her up. She is at university and now knows it all but we are very close. However, some people may call me racist but I don't think I am. I have seen the worst type of racism with apartheid in South Africa which I found appalling in several visits there during that era. My version of racism is the hatred of people you don't know because of their colour or religion. Believe it or not I have several black friends and I have a gay friend so I am not that alien. I also sponsored a boy in Zambia for a number of years. Anyway whatever you think of me really isn’t too much of a distraction because we don't know each other personally.

I think that you have made your mind up in the way I think and others that have similar views. So much so that, as far as I am concerned, you misinterpreted what I have said. Possibly that could be my fault or your eagerness to demonise my veiws. You are right I did say that certain things iritate me but my veiw is that there seems to be too much in the way it is presented. Not that I think that any particular group should or should not be represented as you seem to imply.

What I don't like to see is whole areas of my country being turned into a foreign country. I don't accept that as a country we should change our way of life to accommodate people who have come here for a better life. I don't blame them for wanting to escape the wretched lives that some of them lead from where they came. I don't like seeing a couple of blokes kissing each other on television. If all that makes me a racist bigot then I am guilty as charged. Nevertheless I am happy in the knowledge that I am not a bad person by any means.

In conclusion I think we have done this subject to death and we are never going to agree. I think its best I withdraw from this debate and let you get back on to your horse and I wish you well.

[Betelgeuse]

Sorry BW misread your post. I thought you were talking about the recruitment issue.

My position on the quotas is stated earlier. In summary, reluctantly in favour of quotas as a means to a desirable end.

I was talking about recuitment in general. I am firmly against this quota system being used currently because all it has done is turned the tables on the average white male. In the past women & ethnic groups were overlooked in favour of the majority white male in the workplace. If someone has one position to fill and they have decided to go down the route of not employing a white male, in favour of a coloured or female person, they will know full well any bloke the turns up for the job won't get it. Just like in the past where the white male had preference, which was totally wrong. Not only that it is against the law to employ, or not to employ, anyone because of their gender or colour.

Then there is the so called 'diversity' issue. If the idea is to make the ethnicity representative then they are missing the target. Adverts on TV will have you believe that something like 20 percent of the population are white when the actual figure is more than 85%. They would have you believe most people are in mixed race relationships when the actual figure is in low single figure percentage. Pre Millennials the figure is below one percent but much higher post Millennial. There is absolutely nothing wrong with mixed race relationships but trying to give the impression that it's the norm is misguiding. The the gay representation is ridiculously shown. It seems that the general population are being groomed into believing what is shown is normality.

I have come to the conclusion that the white male is now the most oppressed section of our community. Tables certainly turned.

Maybe it's just me, but when I watch adverts I don't sit there thinking, "there's a black person. There's a white person. There's an Asian person. Oooo there's a man putting his cock in another man's mouth" (I'm just being silly here to keep the mood light). These things just don't register with me. I see people. I see interactions between people. I see products. I couldn't tell you if one demographic is being represented more than another or not as it just doesn't matter. People are people and the sooner the human race realises this, the sooner we can move away from hatred and discrimination and just treat everyone equally.

That's quite a simplistic way of looking at it Chris, we might as well have open borders in that case. The UK is predominantly a white, christian country, and of course a measure of diversity is a good thing but the way things are going we'll be under Shariah Law in a few decades or less. I have no problem with ethnicity but when you watch tv or see advertising you would be forgiven for thinking that we are living in a mixed race country with whites in the minority, and most people are gay.

As we've discussed before, Christianity is no longer the majority religion in the country. Fret not though, Islam is not going to be what replaces it. No religion is the fastest growing group and if trends continue, will be the majority within the next 20 years. Your irrational fear of Shariah Law taking over this country is unfounded and your troubles with witnessing peoples of colour or different sexual orientation on TV is a you problem. Must be exhausting doing a head count every time you turn on the TV to see if you need to be outraged or not. Maybe try to just enjoy watching whatever it is without these worries. It'll do you some good.

I don't think it actually is a "you" problem with respect Chris. There are plenty of other people who have shown concern at the way the minority is being over-represented...the BBC is quite frankly ridiculous, and if you think that Shariah Law is an irrational fear then look at all the Muslim councils who live under it already. What about the case of the autistic schoolchild who brought a copy of the Koran into school which subsequently got damaged. The authorities couldn't wait to signal their virtue and bow down to Islamic law, even the mother had to sit there with her head covered and beg for her son's safety. The teacher who is living in hiding because of the crime of having the kids draw a pic of Mohammed. If you think this is just nothing worth worrying about then you're burying your head in the sand.

[Betelgeuse]

What I don't like to see is whole areas of my country being turned into a foreign country. I don't accept that as a country we should change our way of life to accommodate people who have come here for a better life. I don't blame them for wanting to escape the wretched lives that some of them lead from where they came. I don't like seeing a couple of blokes kissing each other on television. If all that makes me a racist bigot then I am guilty as charged. Nevertheless I am happy in the knowledge that I am not a bad person by any means.


[/quote]

Absolutely spot on Walter. I'm not too bothered about the kissing really but it does feel like England and Englishness is slowly being eroded and replaced by those of a different culture.

[StMonkton]

How do we think Englishness developed?

Historic influxes of Danish, German and French settlers are the basis of most ‘traditional English’. I thought we lived in Britain so Welsh and Scottish influence also played a huge part.

So influxes of different cultures are not new. I would agree that the last 50 years have seen quite a rapid pace of change and I think that is true around the world as populations have shifted more. This has posed social and economic challenges which we need to cope with.

I also think there is a group of unscrupulous political opportunists who are mad keen to sow fear and discontent among us.

This week our Home Secretary and Prime Minister implied that child abuse was caused by political correctness based on cases from 10 years ago. They both know that investigations have shown no clear ethnic imbalance in this sort of offence. The facts don’t suit their rhetoric of ‘Our way of life under peril from woke’ but that hasn’t stopped them.

[phat_chris]

How do we think Englishness developed?

Historic influxes of Danish, German and French settlers are the basis of most ‘traditional English’. I thought we lived in Britain so Welsh and Scottish influence also played a huge part.

So influxes of different cultures are not new. I would agree that the last 50 years have seen quite a rapid pace of change and I think that is true around the world as populations have shifted more. This has posed social and economic challenges which we need to cope with.

I also think there is a group of unscrupulous political opportunists who are mad keen to sow fear and discontent among us.

This week our Home Secretary and Prime Minister implied that child abuse was caused by political correctness based on cases from 10 years ago. They both know that investigations have shown no clear ethnic imbalance in this sort of offence. The facts don’t suit their rhetoric of ‘Our way of life under peril from woke’ but that hasn’t stopped them.

Spot on. In politics, like in the media, fear sells. The current government know they are more than likely to be removed at the next election and are desperately scrambling to sow fear, create bogeymen and claim only they can deal with it.

Fear is a powerful emotion. As humans we are drawn to it. It's why things like horror movies, thrill rides, fast cars are so popular. Politicians and media use it to push their agendas as fear overrides the rational part of your brain. People need to learn to look past their fears.

[Betelgeuse]

How do we think Englishness developed?

Historic influxes of Danish, German and French settlers are the basis of most ‘traditional English’. I thought we lived in Britain so Welsh and Scottish influence also played a huge part.

So influxes of different cultures are not new. I would agree that the last 50 years have seen quite a rapid pace of change and I think that is true around the world as populations have shifted more. This has posed social and economic challenges which we need to cope with.

I also think there is a group of unscrupulous political opportunists who are mad keen to sow fear and discontent among us.

This week our Home Secretary and Prime Minister implied that child abuse was caused by political correctness based on cases from 10 years ago. They both know that investigations have shown no clear ethnic imbalance in this sort of offence. The facts don’t suit their rhetoric of ‘Our way of life under peril from woke’ but that hasn’t stopped them.

I realise that England (the uk for that matter) has had many influences over a period of time from different cultures, but Islam is a culture that doesn't marry with our ideals. Oppression of women, homosexuality, the teaching of the Koran and the call to prayer in major cities. That isn't in our culture and neither should it be imho.

[Blue Walter]

How do we think Englishness developed?

Historic influxes of Danish, German and French settlers are the basis of most ‘traditional English’. I thought we lived in Britain so Welsh and Scottish influence also played a huge part.

So influxes of different cultures are not new. I would agree that the last 50 years have seen quite a rapid pace of change and I think that is true around the world as populations have shifted more. This has posed social and economic challenges which we need to cope with.

I also think there is a group of unscrupulous political opportunists who are mad keen to sow fear and discontent among us.

This week our Home Secretary and Prime Minister implied that child abuse was caused by political correctness based on cases from 10 years ago. They both know that investigations have shown no clear ethnic imbalance in this sort of offence. The facts don’t suit their rhetoric of ‘Our way of life under peril from woke’ but that hasn’t stopped them.

I did say I was withdrawing from this particular debate but when I see posts like yours it draws me back in. To say that those Rochdale & Rotherham cases were not down to concerns of political correctness are not true. You have said that it was 'implied' that PC concerns were not at play which is simply not true. Several high position people in the police & local council resigned from there positions because of it. The subject of concerns of a racial prejudice in the cases was highlighted as one of the main causes of the rings of Pakistani men not being broken and the culprits punished. The investigations clearly uncovered the evidence that this was a prominent consideration in action not being taken earlier.

May I suggest that this argument doesn't sit well with the agenda you support and that quoting falsehoods does nothing for healthy debate.

I am not a supporter of this government and I will probably vote for Labour in the next general election. Nevertheless, I applaud the Home Secretary in bringing about this bill that makes it illegal to hide behind political correctness or racial fears. There is undoubtedly racist elements in this country from the white side but supporters of anti racist groups are only too quick to play the 'race card', I know because I have seen it done with my own eyes.

[Blue Walter]

What I don't like to see is whole areas of my country being turned into a foreign country. I don't accept that as a country we should change our way of life to accommodate people who have come here for a better life. I don't blame them for wanting to escape the wretched lives that some of them lead from where they came. I don't like seeing a couple of blokes kissing each other on television. If all that makes me a racist bigot then I am guilty as charged. Nevertheless I am happy in the knowledge that I am not a bad person by any means.

Absolutely spot on Walter. I'm not too bothered about the kissing really but it does feel like England and Englishness is slowly being eroded and replaced by those of a different culture.
[/quote]

Thank you for your support but please tell that the kissing blokes doesn't turn you on!!!

[StMonkton]

Sorry Blue Walter but I wish you would read my posts properly. I didn’t say fear of being called out for racism wasn’t a factor in the authorities being slow to act in those historic cases. They were over a decade ago and my mention of the cases was prompted by our current government trying to make political capital out of history as though it was the current situation.

To make it clear here is what I think

There were some high profile cases where a fear of being seen as racist meant slow action. These cases were all about a decade ago.

The Home Secretary and Prime Minister implied this week that child abuse was the result of political correctness.

Also that the primary perpetrators were groups of Pakistani men.

Specific investigations have found no racial skew in child abuse cases and a look at yesterday’s news shows a group of white men and women convicted of vile child abuse.

So, I don’t deny racial concerns have sometimes been an issue. I do claim this government is being reckless with the facts.


You are usually very careful with what you write and I respect that even if I often disagree. Please be as careful when reading what others write and don’t accuse me of misrepresentation unjustifiably.

[Betelgeuse]

To those that are upset by female pundits because they are not males, non-white people because they are not white, other religions because they are not Cristian or LGBT because they are not straight.... I'd suggest that you are out of touch with the modern world and are stuck in the past. Things have moved on and they are not going back. Of course it is up to you who you like or don't like and you are absolutely entitled to your views for whatever reason you hold them but most youngsters are not blinded by any of the above and they are our future. My views... others are available but I do feel grateful that I don't have to prejudge someone on predefined criteria.

That comment is so patronising.

[Blue Walter]

Sorry BW misread your post. I thought you were talking about the recruitment issue.

My position on the quotas is stated earlier. In summary, reluctantly in favour of quotas as a means to a desirable end.

I was talking about recuitment in general. I am firmly against this quota system being used currently because all it has done is turned the tables on the average white male. In the past women & ethnic groups were overlooked in favour of the majority white male in the workplace. If someone has one position to fill and they have decided to go down the route of not employing a white male, in favour of a coloured or female person, they will know full well any bloke the turns up for the job won't get it. Just like in the past where the white male had preference, which was totally wrong. Not only that it is against the law to employ, or not to employ, anyone because of their gender or colour.

Then there is the so called 'diversity' issue. If the idea is to make the ethnicity representative then they are missing the target. Adverts on TV will have you believe that something like 20 percent of the population are white when the actual figure is more than 85%. They would have you believe most people are in mixed race relationships when the actual figure is in low single figure percentage. Pre Millennials the figure is below one percent but much higher post Millennial. There is absolutely nothing wrong with mixed race relationships but trying to give the impression that it's the norm is misguiding. The the gay representation is ridiculously shown. It seems that the general population are being groomed into believing what is shown is normality.

I have come to the conclusion that the white male is now the most oppressed section of our community. Tables certainly turned.

Maybe it's just me, but when I watch adverts I don't sit there thinking, "there's a black person. There's a white person. There's an Asian person. Oooo there's a man putting his cock in another man's mouth" (I'm just being silly here to keep the mood light). These things just don't register with me. I see people. I see interactions between people. I see products. I couldn't tell you if one demographic is being represented more than another or not as it just doesn't matter. People are people and the sooner the human race realises this, the sooner we can move away from hatred and discrimination and just treat everyone equally.

That's quite a simplistic way of looking at it Chris, we might as well have open borders in that case. The UK is predominantly a white, christian country, and of course a measure of diversity is a good thing but the way things are going we'll be under Shariah Law in a few decades or less. I have no problem with ethnicity but when you watch tv or see advertising you would be forgiven for thinking that we are living in a mixed race country with whites in the minority, and most people are gay.

As we've discussed before, Christianity is no longer the majority religion in the country. Fret not though, Islam is not going to be what replaces it. No religion is the fastest growing group and if trends continue, will be the majority within the next 20 years. Your irrational fear of Shariah Law taking over this country is unfounded and your troubles with witnessing peoples of colour or different sexual orientation on TV is a you problem. Must be exhausting doing a head count every time you turn on the TV to see if you need to be outraged or not. Maybe try to just enjoy watching whatever it is without these worries. It'll do you some good.

I don't think it actually is a "you" problem with respect Chris. There are plenty of other people who have shown concern at the way the minority is being over-represented...the BBC is quite frankly ridiculous, and if you think that Shariah Law is an irrational fear then look at all the Muslim councils who live under it already. What about the case of the autistic schoolchild who brought a copy of the Koran into school which subsequently got damaged. The authorities couldn't wait to signal their virtue and bow down to Islamic law, even the mother had to sit there with her head covered and beg for her son's safety. The teacher who is living in hiding because of the crime of having the kids draw a pic of Mohammed. If you think this is just nothing worth worrying about then you're burying your head in the sand.

For instance the sale of halal meat in fast food chains in London. If you don't want halal meat don't go to KFC who have a notice up announcing "all the meat sold here is halal". If you want normal meat you won't get it there.