Professionalism or Just Plain Cheating?

[Blue Walter]

Reading through fans forums of Pompey's opponents there are two common threads that come through, especially away from home. Generally over the last two seasons opposition supporters have not been overly impressed with Pompey. If they lose to us it's usually 'how did we lose against them because they weren't anything special' or it they win it is 'well we should have beaten them as they were poor', or words to that effect. But the most common one is Pompey's 'dark arts' which includes time wasting and feigning injury. On yesterday's radio commentary the commentator mentioned this and said that the extra time 'was for so called injuries'. We seem to have a bit of a reputation for being a bit on the 'dirty' side as well. I think this has got more since Mousinho has been in charge and I remember him in an interview that, as a player, he would do all sorts of things to wind up opposing players with either legal or illegal ways. Morrell admitted he did knee the player in the back for his latest sending off, citing that the only thing he done wrong was to get caught.

I veiw this as a tag that doesn't make me that proud. I know it's called 'professional' but I veiw it as cheating. All hell breaks loose when away teams time waste at Fratton Park. I know all teams do it but I think it needs to be stamped out.

Apparently Rafferty got injured but the Referee didn't stop play in the second half yesterday. I wonder if this was the case where 'he cried wolf' comes into it.

[Pompey1984+1]

I think it's one of those myths that every clubs fans think everyone else is better at the 'dark arts' than they are.

There were a few occasions yesterday where we managed the game. In the first half when we were getting absolutely destroyed by Derby when Macey went down. Similar in the second half with Rafferty. Do we do it more than others? I don't think so, but I would say that wouldn't I?!

[StMonkton]

I’m sad to say I think it’s probably both Walter.

Ex players all seem to agree that ‘taking one for the team’ is what real professional players do. You also hear ‘he had no option, he had to bring him down’.

I call deliberate fouling cheating plain and simple.

These days we have ‘game management’ which really means time wasting.

I do understand managers want to win at all costs but I wish they’d be a bit more apologetic.

Sadly that’s an old school view of what sport is about, but then I went to an old school. I also went to a new school but that’s so long ago it’s now an old school too!

[PeteM]

I don't think we're anywhere near as good at the dark arts as, say, Gareth Ainsworth's Wycombe side that got promoted. I've not seen as many comments about it since Mousinho took over though, it seemed to be something more levelled at Cowley by other managers, or maybe that's just because I noticed it more.

Interesting what you say about how other teams view Pompey BW - I suspect if people looked at this board, they'd get a similar view of how opposition teams are viewed. It's rare that we lose a game because an opposition team was brilliant

Personally I don't have a problem with us breaking the game up in situations when protecting a lead, or making a "good foul" to stop a counter attack - it's part of the game. It may not be an especially nice part of it, but if you're a professional footballer (or manager), your job is to win. If you've got to push the boundaries occasionally to do that, then it's your job to do that.

Having said that I also wouldn't have a problem with referees stopping teams from doing it either - but until they do, pretty much every team will try and use it to their advantage.

[Blue Walter]

I don't think we're anywhere near as good at the dark arts as, say, Gareth Ainsworth's Wycombe side that got promoted. I've not seen as many comments about it since Mousinho took over though, it seemed to be something more levelled at Cowley by other managers, or maybe that's just because I noticed it more.

Interesting what you say about how other teams view Pompey BW - I suspect if people looked at this board, they'd get a similar view of how opposition teams are viewed. It's rare that we lose a game because an opposition team was brilliant

Personally I don't have a problem with us breaking the game up in situations when protecting a lead, or making a "good foul" to stop a counter attack - it's part of the game. It may not be an especially nice part of it, but if you're a professional footballer (or manager), your job is to win. If you've got to push the boundaries occasionally to do that, then it's your job to do that.

Having said that I also wouldn't have a problem with referees stopping teams from doing it either - but until they do, pretty much every team will try and use it to their advantage.

Yes, I seem to remember Wycombe had a bad name for the so called 'dark arts'. I know it is common practice and I am aware of everything you have said but, in my opinion, it has got to the stage where it needs to be tackled. I don't think it excuses what goes on as it detracts from the entertainment value of the game which, in my opinion, has been eroded over the years with tactics and this issue. Of course it happened in the past, which again I am fully aware of. We had a player called Brian Lewis who could be counted on to get us the odd duff penalty of free kick. I think things are on a downward spiral when a pundit says, on reviewing an incident, that 'the player felt a hand on his shoulder so he was entitled to go down'. In my veiw a player is only entitled to 'go down' if the hand on his shoulder impedes his progress.

The reason why I mentioned opponents fans forums is because this criticism aimed at Pompey is how I said. As I also said our club has got a bit of a reputation for this and I am fully aware that our supporters will point that finger elsewhere but I am only reporting back what I have read.

I hope that the football authorities will look at this issue and take some action.

[Blue Walter]

I’m sad to say I think it’s probably both Walter.

Ex players all seem to agree that ‘taking one for the team’ is what real professional players do. You also hear ‘he had no option, he had to bring him down’.

I call deliberate fouling cheating plain and simple.

These days we have ‘game management’ which really means time wasting.

I do understand managers want to win at all costs but I wish they’d be a bit more apologetic.

Sadly that’s an old school view of what sport is about, but then I went to an old school. I also went to a new school but that’s so long ago it’s now an old school too!

Loved the "Sadly that's an old school veiw of what sport is about, but I went to a new school but that is so long ago it's now an old school". That made me chuckle.

[StMonkton]

Glad to amuse .
To be strictly honest, the new , now old , school has been knocked down for another new build, while the old, old one is a car park!

[Rjk66]

Pompey have had their hard players over the years from Bobby Kellard to Mick Kennedy to name but two. If you wanted a penalty then Vince Hilaire was your man, he always managed to get them when he was in the area, but maybe it was his good dribbling on those occasions.

[Blue Walter]

Pompey have had their hard players over the years from Bobby Kellard to Mick Kennedy to name but two. If you wanted a penalty then Vince Hilaire was your man, he always managed to get them when he was in the area, but maybe it was his good dribbling on those occasions.

I think the latter. Vince Hilaire was a fabulous player and I couldn't believe it when we signed him. He was a player that put bums on seats. I remember once watching Match of the Day and they featured him for his dribbling skills. They showed his skill in slow motion highlighting his balance and ability. This was when he was playing for Crystal Palace but not that long before he joined us. I done something very childish in my trousers when it was announced he was joining Pompey. I think he still lives in this area and I remember chatting to him whilst he was leaning up against a burger van on the Aston Road estate in Waterlooville. I have got a great story about him which I will leave for another time.

[BlueinPLtwenty]

Old school? I remember in the `sixties` Bobby Charlton being interviewed after a match. The question was "You must have been disappointed to have conceded that goal". Charlton`s reply was "Yes we should have `brought down` the Guy who scored, when we had the opportunity". Or words to that effect. It is not a new way of thinking or playing for that matter but with more television analysis and scrutiny these `things` are highlighted

[Blue Walter]

Old school? I remember in the `sixties` Bobby Charlton being interviewed after a match. The question was "You must have been disappointed to have conceded that goal". Charlton`s reply was "Yes we should have `brought down` the Guy who scored, when we had the opportunity". Or words to that effect. It is not a new way of thinking or playing for that matter but with more television analysis and scrutiny these `things` are highlighted

Playing hard or 'dirty' has been in the game, probably, since the game began. Pompey have had their fair share of hard men and players who went that bit further than the rules allow, Jimmy Scouler and Harry Harris certainly were not people you would want to mix it with. Those players wouldn't be allowed in the game these days and their places have been taken by the sneeky type of fouling. What is more alarming, in my opinion, is the feigning of injury and 'diving' as it is becoming acceptable to not only those inside the game but amongst supporters. It is seen as one of the skills of the game. Game 'management' is the use of time wasting tactics, which includes feigning injury, with the idea of seeing a game out which I think detracts from the entertainment.