European Super League

[Sam_Brown]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56794673

6 Teams from the Premier League and 6 more from Europe's biggest leagues look to be pushing ahead with the idea of a European Super League...

The teams in question:

Premier League: Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham
La Liga: Atletico Madrid, Barcelona and Real Madrid
Serie A: AC Milan, Inter Milan and Juventus

Threats of legal action and banning players from the world cup if they partake in the league already flying around. The FA, UEFA etc are all annoyed as can be expected although I do find it slightly ironic Sky would have the gall to kick off over it of all people. Have a feeling this is maybe more of an issue that they aren't going to be part of the league more than anything.

Now I wasn't really old enough to be there when the Premier League was first bought in so have no idea if this is analogous to that happening but all in all.

Safe to say world football has been dominated by greed for decades now. Plus there is all the corruption at FIFA \ UEFA, backhanders for world cup votes and talks of interference with the Newcastle takeover that went south due to pressure from the Middle East. Hard to know who is right and wrong in this situation.

I'm not really sure where I sit on the whole thing. Just a case of the powers that be wanting to keep the status quo and scared of losing their power or is this a legit threat to the game? Perhaps this is scare tactics to force more reforms with the CL format which I seem to recall has been a contentious issue as of late.

Thoughts?

[No Shot Sherlock]

Thoughts?

It won't happen.

[New Forester]

If it is opposed by FIFA, UEFA and the Premier League how can it happen? I’m ashamed that the six English clubs have agreed to be part of this.

[Sam_Brown]

If it is opposed by FIFA, UEFA and the Premier League how can it happen? I’m ashamed that the six English clubs have agreed to be part of this.

Just playing devils advocate here but outside of threatening the teams they can’t play in the Prem or the players can’t play in the World Cup what else can they do?

[Weybridge]

If it is opposed by FIFA, UEFA and the Premier League how can it happen? I’m ashamed that the six English clubs have agreed to be part of this.

I doubt the clubs had any say in it. This is a cabal of uber-rich majority shareholding owners who know that a few billion in tv subscriptions is worth far more than 60k season ticket holders. Certainly nothing to do with being 'elite'.

When the PL hatched, there was a lot of gnashing of teeth. However I don't think anyone can deny the game didn't get better (for the most part) and it drew more fans to games. The Super League though is just a money-grab pure and simple. As for fans, who is going to stump up air-fare twice a month, plus the match ticket and accommodation?

[PakefieldBlue]

Wouldn't it be funny if all the players decided to leave these "top clubs" because they still want to play in the World Cup and domestic leagues. It would leave the ESL scratching around for has-beens and free agents!!

[Weybridge]

Wouldn't it be funny if all the players decided to leave these "top clubs" because they still want to play in the World Cup and domestic leagues. It would leave the ESL scratching around for has-beens and free agents!!

It would be great to see! However, I think the FA and PL will cave. The bedrock of the PL is having the world's best players on show every week. Take that away and you more than dull the brand. Similarly with the national team selection - it would be a huge self-sacrifice. And the PL have never been big on principle.

Just makes me laugh how Arsenal are crowing about being a founder member of the European Super League - while languishing in 9th place. Not to mention Chelsea and Spuds, in 5th and 7th. At least the Spanish and Italians are sitting in appropriate positions.

[Milton End]

Let's be very clear.

If this goes ahead, then there is no possibility ever again of Pompey beating Manchester United in the FA Cup - as we know, perhaps unlikely but not impossible! This should therefore concern every Pompey fan. I suggest that it should also every ManU fan because the uncertainty of the outcome is the life blood of the football game.

But will it go ahead?

By definition, it will limit competition in football. Given that there are major financial implications, this is a 'contract in restraint of trade.' It is anti-competitive. It should therefore be subject to examination either by the Competition and Markets Authority in the UK or - more likely - by the European Commission in Brussels for contravention of the strong European competition rules.

Moreover, it will only go ahead if the clubs are able to negotiate a lucrative television rights deal with Sky/Viacom, Amazon, Netlix or Disney+/ESPN.

But this will depend on the supporters of these clubs being willing to subscribe to this limited competition between a few leading UK, Spanish and Italian clubs: the German and French clubs will not take part. Supporters have some market power here: I hope that they will refuse to subscribe to what will clearly be somewhat repetitive and predictable games.

It's such a pity that some leading clubs have been acquired by such greedy and self-centred owners.

But I don't think that we've seen the last of this...

[Milton End]

Just to elaborate on one point.

This is anti competitive because the founding clubs can never be relegated. They are buying themselves elite status - and the profits that go with this - in perpetuity!

It's no wonder one of the leading American banks -JP Morgan - is backing this with $6 billion!

The claim that, "We will help football at every level and take it to its rightful place in the world," from the President of Real Madrid is complete eyewash.

[rumourmonger]

The crux of the whole thing seems to hinge on whether the football world as we know it and this new ESL can run side by side. The 12 clubs concerned , as I read it , just want to opt out of the Champions League , Europa League and the general lottery of whether you qualify for European football on a season by season basis. They want to play their domestic games as normal on a Saturday and then have this guaranteed ESL football in midweek. Whereas the initial stance from the authorities is No. If you opt to join the ESL that's you out of the Premier League , FA Cup , League Cup etc etc .

It'll be an interesting struggle to follow.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Dont see this happening. Seeing as most are against it, who's gonna be watching?
Reckon you'd get a boycott in the stands, lack of atmos and a lack of peeps willing to pay tv to watch..

Someone ought to explain to wealthy morons that the reason playing the likes of Barca / Real Madrid etc is so very cool, even if you're Man Utd....is that you dont play them every week. Once it becomes ordinary, well, its ordinary innit.

[Weybridge]

Dont see this happening. Seeing as most are against it, who's gonna be watching?
Reckon you'd get a boycott in the stands, lack of atmos and a lack of peeps willing to pay tv to watch..

Someone ought to explain to wealthy morons that the reason playing the likes of Barca / Real Madrid etc is so very cool, even if you're Man Utd....is that you dont play them every week. Once it becomes ordinary, well, its ordinary innit.

Around a billion or so in India and China. As was mentioned this morning, CEOs of these clubs only refer to fans in two categories : legacy fans, and future fans. Guess which they are more concerned with?

[Pompey Penguin]

Boris wades in.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... eague-plan

This probably means that he is just reacting to the"issue of the day", with no intention of doing anything, but it is interesting to consider what steps a government could take. Under FIFA rules governments are not allowed to interfere in football governance; national FAs must be independent. However, I think there are at least a couple of measures/threats that a government could use to control clubs. Both of these are nuclear options, but would reduce the value of clubs way beyond anything they might gain from a super league.

Tax policy. The government can set up any taxation scheme it wants. So maybe something like the revenue sharing scheme that operates in ML baseball under the CBA, where money raised is redistributed within the game (or at least MLB). For instance, any sports team with a salary budget over £50M would pay a 10% tax, then a rising scale to a team with a £200M payroll paying 100% tax. Nothing to stop Man City having a £200M payroll, but they would then have to pay a tax of another £200M to do so.

Equalities policy. Treat sports clubs as any other business in the UK, and ensure that there is no discrimination on the basis of gender. Any sports club would have to offer the same opportunities and pay structure to women and girls as they do to men and boys. Again, Man City could have a men's payroll of £200M, but they would slo have to pay their women's team the same (on average, with a tiny bit of wiggle room, say 10%). Also, the same travel and training (etc.) facilities and level of provision. Not having a women's career structure the same as the men's would also be illegal, so no just dumping the women's team.

[Locky_McLockface]

There have been several mentions of reform to both the PL and the CL in recent years. I suspect that these teams are just using this proposed ESL as leverage in these talks. The fact that Bayern, Dortmund and PSG aren't involved speaks volumes, I think.

I don't think it's an empty threat, but equally I don't think it's the teams' preferred option.

If it comes to it, will the PL have the wahoonies to kick them out of the Prem? I doubt it, tbh. UEFA equally unlikely. FIFA might, but even then I'm not so sure.

[Sam_Brown]

The fact that Bayern, Dortmund and PSG aren't involved speaks volumes, I think.

Can't speak to PSG but in the Bundesliga clubs need to keep 50% +1 of the shares within the club so that no one external company can dictate what happens. This might explain why they haven't come out yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%2B1_rule

Around a billion or so in India and China. As was mentioned this morning, CEOs of these clubs only refer to fans in two categories : legacy fans, and future fans. Guess which they are more concerned with?

Yeah this is the problem. These massive teams have global fans. Just look at the reception teams like Man U get when they go to Asia. It's almost cult like. Old fogies like us aren't the target audience anymore despite what lip services the big clubs pay to the "community" etc.

There is research to suggest that younger people are more open to the Super League idea than older people. Could be why the clubs probably aren't that bothered. You think that Mr Smith 78 from Oldham not renewing his season ticket this season is going to cause them any sleepless night! When I play 5-a-side everyone is wearing Barca or Liverpool or City shirts.

The European Super League saga will be framed as a battle of money vs. principles, but in reality it is just a battle of money v money.


Found this interesting as well on the bbc (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/56797739):

Manchester United shares have risen strongly within minutes of the opening bell on the New York Stock Exchange, where they are traded.

Fifteen minutes after the trading day began they were up around 8.5% in a sign that investors believe that the plans for a lucrative European Super League will get off the ground.

Says it all.