Scouting Non League

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Pompey55
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Pompey55 »

I would agree of your reading of Eric Eisners comments I felt that it came across that he was frustrated with the failure to improve on the previous season considering the on and off field investment made.
I liked his analogy of building a stage but needing good actors on it, I imagine that after this window he will be looking at the very minimum is challenging for the playoffs
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Sam_Brown »

I have mentioned this before but from a point point of view we have done better this season than last. Our second half to the season was also better than our first half so improvements were made there as well after January. And despite the fact we’ve not played the best football I do still feel at times it was a lot better than last seasons dross served up by Jackett.

Now you can make an argument for the reality not matching the rhetoric given which is fair enough but i don’t see us being in a worse place than this time last year and we’ve managed to get rid of the dead wood which should hopefully mean we have more resources to spend this window than perhaps we have in the past two.

To reiterate a previous post it’s going to be a long couple of months and the window isn’t even open yet! We will know more come the end of august.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Milton End »

Blue Walter wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 5:34 pm I think the most stark thing is the way he answers, or fields, questions now to earlier. For instance when he announced his 'vision' he said words to the effect that 'I think the owners will back us'. Now he has basically said 'well I have told them what I want and now it's up to them'. I think his wings have been clipped to a certain extent. Eric Eisner has said he wants to see improvement in the playing style, perhaps no coincidence that he played his best team when Eric Eisner was in attendance. Also, maybe, it was no coincidence that Walker never featured when Eric Eisner was here either. When Eric Eisner said he wanted to see an improvement did that mean it was because he hasn't seen any improvement up to now? He also rather pointedly said that we are coming up to this much heralded third window!

I may well be reading between the lines and got it completely wrong, to the point of being mischievous, but I certainly see a shift in the relationship now. I am not even saying the Cowley's should go but I do want to see an end to all the bluff and blarney. And I certainly would like to see something tangible of this so called transition to fast attacking football.
My guess is that you are right about this.

The Cowleys have this final Summer transfer window to deliver within the budget set by Tornante. Basically, Eric Eisner will want to see results by Christmas 2022.

My reading of events is that the Cowleys must achieve and hold at least a competitive top six place in December 2022 or they're out.

The upcoming appointment shortly of a new Director of Football at PFC would be one way of ensuring temporary continuity if they fail.
Milton End is entering a new era with Tornante
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by jam tomorrow »

I feel I am adding more fuel to the fire but never the less it has to be said. Lincoln are looking to replace Appleton on their forum the Cowleys were mentioned. This idea was turned down on the basis they felt DC required more money for players, which Lincoln could not provide. They moved on to Huddersfield who were a bigger club but were in dire straights.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Blue Walter »

Sam_Brown wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 6:14 pm I have mentioned this before but from a point point of view we have done better this season than last. Our second half to the season was also better than our first half so improvements were made there as well after January. And despite the fact we’ve not played the best football I do still feel at times it was a lot better than last seasons dross served up by Jackett.

Now you can make an argument for the reality not matching the rhetoric given which is fair enough but i don’t see us being in a worse place than this time last year and we’ve managed to get rid of the dead wood which should hopefully mean we have more resources to spend this window than perhaps we have in the past two.

To reiterate a previous post it’s going to be a long couple of months and the window isn’t even open yet! We will know more come the end of august.


Fair comment but it has to be said that a lot of the team that has improved may well not be here next season. I know people disagree with me but I am of the opinion we are too reliant on loan players, which is a Cowley trait. The rebuild will have to start again with duff loans going back early and a waiting game for other loan players to come upto scratch.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Pompey55 »

Is it not the case that most teams in our position use loans to improve the team however I feel that Cowley tends to use it to boost squad numbers if you ignore Bazunu who was a special case in general the loan players were mainly used as squad players Hirst never really got a chance until Marquis and Harrison left, Ahadme and Azeeze rarely featured Romeo was a bit part player Walker was crap only Carter cemented a place for most of his loan even then only after a short while on the bench.
As an aside Azeeze is now in Arsenals first team squad
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Pompey1984+1 »

Most of the players we were heavily linked with or signed have showed they are capable (or better than) league one football ironically with the exception of Azeez, and the three we signed to develop (Vincent, Mingi and the other injured lad).

Ademe has scored a few for Burton, the rest have to some extent all at least showed they can do it here - and several of the ones that got away have done well (or better) too e.g. Twine and Stockley.

I think think this shows that the management team are at least able to identify players who have the attributes needed to be good (or better) league one players.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Blue Walter »

Pompey55 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:37 pm Is it not the case that most teams in our position use loans to improve the team however I feel that Cowley tends to use it to boost squad numbers if you ignore Bazunu who was a special case in general the loan players were mainly used as squad players Hirst never really got a chance until Marquis and Harrison left, Ahadme and Azeeze rarely featured Romeo was a bit part player Walker was crap only Carter cemented a place for most of his loan even then only after a short while on the bench.
As an aside Azeeze is now in Arsenals first team squad

Yes they do but some clubs tend to rely on loanees to plug gaps they simply cannot afford to buy for. My veiw is that a club like Portsmouth, who are supposedly upwardly mobile, should have their own players to build a successful team on. Three of the most important players from this season are going back to their parent clubs now and they need to be replaced. These players were probably the first names on the team sheet but their futures are elsewhere.

Hirst did not get much of a look in to start with because he wasn't good enough so his first dozen games for us he wasn't much more than a passenger. Leicester will benefit from us because we have done the donkey work for them, whereas we have to get someone in to replace him if we don't get him back. Wouldn't it have been much better if the time he spent as a passenger was for our long term benefit?
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Pompey1984+1 »

Isn't filling gaps exactly what they did though? Would we have signed Hirst had we been successful in signing Stockley?

Would we have signed Bazunu had we had an international goalkeeper already?

Romeo is the only one that sort of filled position we already signed a player for (Freeman) everyone else offered something on paper at least which plugged a gap.

Is, in part at least taking on youngsters like Mingi et al the approach you have suggested - letting us develop our own players without the luxery of sending them back? Being passengers, with less pedigree and we are buying their tickets too.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Blue Walter »

Pompey1984+1 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:08 am Isn't filling gaps exactly what they did though? Would we have signed Hirst had we been successful in signing Stockley?

Would we have signed Bazunu had we had an international goalkeeper already?

Romeo is the only one that sort of filled position we already signed a player for (Freeman) everyone else offered something on paper at least which plugged a gap.

Is, in part at least taking on youngsters like Mingi et al the approach you have suggested - letting us develop our own players without the luxery of sending them back? Being passengers, with less pedigree and we are buying their tickets too.
I am not saying we shouldn't bring in loan players as they do give teams a boost. What I am saying is relying on these players as the main men. If we are building a team for the future we should be nurturing our own players that are going to be part of the clubs future instead of doing that for other clubs. Bazuna is a brilliant goalkeeper, the sort of player we just could not have afforded to buy. He is better than Bass but, in my opinion, we did not need to loan him because Bass has proved he can play at this level. I would assume Bazuna wasn't cheap either and the funds could have been used elsewhere in the team, perhaps a proper stab at getting a decent striker for instance. If the budget was tight the funds should be used where positions are most needed. Bazuna was a luxury player, we are not in the position to bring in international players we cannot afford. Hirst is a player that is still on a learning curve and we have helped his club in his progress but half of his time here he wasn't an asset to us. In my opinion any loan players we bring in should be ready to step into the side, Carter was that and a great player and I wish we could sign him full time but he is Championship standard and will want to play at that level. We signed 7 loan players last season and 3 ended as successful, one reasonable and three unsuccessful. I think signing all those loans was too many for a club supposedly building a team for the future and transitioning in to a certain style of football.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Daniel »

Bassey meant to have really good links with non league.

Lyle Taylor said add Wimbledon’s recruitment got worse when bassey left
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by jam tomorrow »

“ I think signing all those loans was too many for a club supposedly building a team for the future and transitioning in to a certain style of football.”

BW Good point those trials and loans did have a negative effect on the progress of the team. As you say only Baz and Thompson initially were a success. Then Hirst came good followed by the Carter loan. All the others were punts that didn’t work. So the moral of the story is if it’s a loan it needs to be a Carter otherwise don’t bother.
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Portchesterblue2 »

I am a little confused over the sudden fascination with the fact we are scouting the non league, have we not been doing this for many many years?
yes i know the Cowleys made a statement about the fact they would be putting an emphasis on the non league recruitmnet, but that was also stated when they joined.
just last weekend Mitrovic overtook whittinghams goals in a season record, a player we plucked form non league non league buying him out of the army. there ahve been others along the way, the latest success probably Lowe
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Portchesterblue2 »

jam tomorrow wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:11 am “ I think signing all those loans was too many for a club supposedly building a team for the future and transitioning in to a certain style of football.”

BW Good point those trials and loans did have a negative effect on the progress of the team. As you say only Baz and Thompson initially were a success. Then Hirst came good followed by the Carter loan. All the others were punts that didn’t work. So the moral of the story is if it’s a loan it needs to be a Carter otherwise don’t bother.
and how do you know you re getting a "carter" unless you take them and try them.
Walker should on paper have a success, but as we well know, football isnt played on paper
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Re: Scouting Non League

Post by Blue Walter »

Portchesterblue2 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:59 am I am a little confused over the sudden fascination with the fact we are scouting the non league, have we not been doing this for many many years?
yes i know the Cowleys made a statement about the fact they would be putting an emphasis on the non league recruitmnet, but that was also stated when they joined.
just last weekend Mitrovic overtook whittinghams goals in a season record, a player we plucked form non league non league buying him out of the army. there ahve been others along the way, the latest success probably Lowe
The fascination, as you put it, is not that we will be looking in this area (non league) as that is the sensible thing to do. It was the statement of the Cowley vision that has caused the stir. The 'vision' stated was that we "sign 4 or 5 players of promise that are good enough to play in our first team that can become assets". Firstly these assets were seen as players that can be sold at a profit, not seen as long term futures of this club. Signing up to 5 players from a standard of football much lower than we now are means the backbone of the team will be non league standard, at least initially. How many players of the first intake of these 5 players are going to make the grade? Impossible to say, of course, all of them could end up playing for England or, conversely, back in non league. The success rate would, I would suggest, possibly 2 out of the 5 if we were lucky. Signing that many players from that source would mean few, if any, established players being signed for any supposed promotion push. The plan sounds more like an entrepreneurial financial investment more than anything whereby these "assets" will be sold on at a profit which "would go straight back into the playing budget to start the process again and bring in further assets". This doesn't inspire me to think that this is a plan to build a successful team where we produce our own players for the clubs future. What it does tell me is that it confirms the thought that the club is going to be 'marking time' whilst the infrastructure is put in place until we are ready for being upwardly mobile. It suggests that for a period of time we will be a trading club and a academy outlet for bigger clubs and we will be resident in League One for sometime yet.

From what I understand this plan, or vision, has been watered down quite a lot and the non league scouting mission is going to be at sensible levels. I think Cowley's wings have been clipped with the owners looking for improvement in the playing style and competitiveness. I think he is now under pressure to deliver improvement and league placing. I think that is why he has been talking more of bringing back a couple of the loan players from last season for instance.

What I do find fascinating is can the Cowley's deliver that improvement?
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