The Pompey Chimes Forum

It seems both major parties are set on the idea to varying levels. The entire thing makes me uncomfortable. Thoughts?

Bought up because of the news to do with being able to book private ops on the NHS app to cut waiting times.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... tment.html

I have really mixed feelings about the NHS, in short it's something brilliant and we should fight for it.

But the flip side of it is that it must be a huge bloated organisation which given the sheer size of it is no suprise.

I sometimes wonder if we should tier the provision, for example everyone gets free treatment, but the reality of this is that you will be on a shared ward etc... Could you then pay annual insurance type premium that gets you upgraded surroundings e.g. a room to yourself?

I just can't help but feel if we want an NHS going forward it needs to bring in some more money some how, and I don't think this should be about quality of treatment, but perhaps the quality of environment?

I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

As Nye Bevan said
“The NHS will last as long as there are folk left who have faith in it”
“No nation can call itself civilized if if someone is denied medical aid through lack of funds”
I agree totally with these sentiments it’s imperative in my view to resist any attempt to privatize it

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

Pretty much agree with everything you say BW. I have one query. When you say it needs to go back to “how it was” what do you mean by that exactly?

I have recent experience of receiving NHS treatment from a private supplier. Felt a bit uncomfortable but as a way of treating more patients it seemed to make sense.

I don’t like the idea of massive profits being made out of providing healthcare but it is clear we need to spend much more than we currently do, particularly for ‘care’ rather than treatment.

I don’t have a simple answer and I suspect nobody else does either.

The water industry is a sign for caution I think. We will shortly be paying for about the fifth time while companies make millions.

Anglian Water apparently were fined about £2m last year for sewage offences. Their profits were over£550m.

We spent billions on the industry when it was nationalised, millions to advertise for sale, millions to make the sale price ‘attractive’, billions in charges and soon billions more to pay them to stop breaking the law.
Enough to make you sick ( in more ways than one).

Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:02 pm

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

Pretty much agree with everything you say BW. I have one query. When you say it needs to go back to “how it was” what do you mean by that exactly?

At it’s inception it was a national system but now it’s fragmented into hundreds of individual trusts in some way it works but for example 2 trusts maybe a few miles away have different suppliers for essential day to day consumables and pay different prices
A return to a central NHS contract for such essentials would reduce the cost to all sites due to economy of negotiating a national price the savings from this alone could save millions
Get rid of subcontractors from cleaning and maintenance with a national wage no private profit thus higher wages for workers encouraging people back to the NHS

Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:02 pm

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

Pretty much agree with everything you say BW. I have one query. When you say it needs to go back to “how it was” what do you mean by that exactly?

What I mean by how it was is exactly that, how it was when it first started in 1947. I know the infrastructure has under gone the required revamping but I don't think they should move too far away from the original concept.

Pompey55 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:46 pm

Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:02 pm

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

Pretty much agree with everything you say BW. I have one query. When you say it needs to go back to “how it was” what do you mean by that exactly?

At it’s inception it was a national system but now it’s fragmented into hundreds of individual trusts in some way it works but for example 2 trusts maybe a few miles away have different suppliers for essential day to day consumables and pay different prices
A return to a central NHS contract for such essentials would reduce the cost to all sites due to economy of negotiating a national price the savings from this alone could save millions
Get rid of subcontractors from cleaning and maintenance with a national wage no private profit thus higher wages for workers encouraging people back to the NHS

Much like local councils which are moving away from private companies for maintaining their patch. These councils are re employing staff as council workers, like they use to be, and getting the work done themselves.

Maybe part of the answer is getting to a position where fewer people need it.

For example, diagnoses of diabetes has doubled in the last 15 years and I think this is predominantly due to diet and lifestyle. The BMJ says that by 2030, 1 in 10 adults could have diabetes. Currently, 10% of the entire NHS budget goes on diabetes - that's about 10 billion pounds every year, and climbing. If we do nothing and let it escalate, then there's no doubt we'll have to spend more on treating it. There is an NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme and data suggests it reduced new cases in 2018/2019 by 7%. Even ignoring the positive effect it had on the life of those thousands of people, it must have saved millions of pounds and reduced the strain on the NHS. So yes, it needs more money, but surely the better aim is to reduce the dependence on it, rather than simply throwing money at it.

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 3:01 pm

Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:02 pm

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

Pretty much agree with everything you say BW. I have one query. When you say it needs to go back to “how it was” what do you mean by that exactly?

What I mean by how it was is exactly that, how it was when it first started in 1947. I know the infrastructure has under gone the required revamping but I don't think they should move too far away from the original concept.

Are the requirements the same though? I don't say this to be facetious - I appreciate it may come across that way.

It seems from my point of view there is a lot more strain in terms of long term care required, especially with the elderly, than there used to be. People are living for longer either through just old age or because they aren't dying from things that would used to kill people. I know firsthand how many times my grandparents have gone into hospital and how it extended my grandads life by a good 10 - 15 years but towards the end it was a constant drain on resources and I felt his quality of life was so bad it would have been better to have gone at home than sitting in a bed for two months. I appreciate my post here is massively swayed by that experience. I also know the demographic of the board is probably weighted towards the upper age limits so I apologies for my clumsiness here.

From a personal \ micro level I completely appreciate the extra time I've spent with my grandparents I might not have had. From a macro \ national level I can see how people living longer can be a massive drain on the system and that is a big problem that needs addressing. Trying to reconcile those two points of view it almost impossible. Oh to be a sociopath sometimes.

This is not the only issue. There are issues with the management \ running of the service as well as more unhealthy fatties (like myself) who will probably be a drain whereas I wouldn't have 50 years ago where I'd probably not have the chance to get fat lol. Also need to add on relatively new things like mental health care which seems to be a growing issue and probably something that wasn't really a major thing back in the day.

^^^ The ramblings of a mad man I'm sure.

13 years of Tory 'investment' - what do you expect?

it's been a Death-by-a-thousand-cuts strategy, so we don't really notice untill too late.

Plus privatise what can make money for US health service companies. in fairness, that was started under the previous Labour government.

The Tory reasoning? According to the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, it was more important to pay off something called the 'UK National Debt' rather than invest in people's health.

You can pay off the National Debt better by growing the economy, not by cuts.

[And we've had no significant growth for years.]

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs. It is still envied all round the world but we are going through a period where its not working properly. There are many reasons for this but it must be corrected and brought back to how it was. Our health system must not go back to how rich a person is in the quality of care they receive, they can do that with investing in private medical provision.

However, I would like to see the rail system, water, sewage, gas and electricity industries nationalised. If you take the railway most of that is owned by French & German companies. The railway system in their countries are largely subsidised and under the control of the government's of those countries. Profits made in our country, largely, goes back to both those countries.

Couldn't agree more. The Eighties market forces experiment has been a complete sham. Thatcher and Lawson carved up our national assets to benefit no one but their shyster pals in big business and after that Geoffrey 'dead sheep' Howe sold off the family silver ie most of our gold reserves to shore up a failing economic programme. Forty years down the line we are all paying the price. Sorry, did I say 'all''? Not, of course the geriatric Tory ministers now serving on the boards of some big companies or nursing their gong in the House of Lords.
It would make a great episode for the Discovery channel's new series, The Big Swindle.

Blue Walter wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 pm I think we should keep the NHS at all costs.

Don't mention things like that to a Tory. Prescription charges will double