Is there still law in this country?

[BlueinPLtwenty]

If the Shop people had phoned the Police and suggested that they thought the shoplifter had a `gun` they would be surprised how quickly the Police would have responded

[PeteM]

Wokeness is affecting much of our lives one way or the other including the police force. For instance 40% of county police commissioners are women. This statistic is aimed at showing 'diversity' but it does mean that very often the best and most qualified candidate doesn't hold that position. That is detrimental to police forces that see diversity as more important than talent, which is a situation repeatedly showing in other positions around the country in all sorts of situations. I know someone that left the police force because a female was put in charge of his section which, very soon, showed it was the wrong choice. This has no bearing on yesterday's incident, of course, but something has to be done because the country is sinking into anarchy and we need to get back to thinking more rational and logically.

Actually 11 out of 39 police and crime commissioners in England and Wales are female, that's 28%. Those positions are voted for by the public every four years, so I can't actually see how it has anything to do with police forces seeing diversity as more important than talent?

[Blue Walter]

Wokeness is affecting much of our lives one way or the other including the police force. For instance 40% of county police commissioners are women. This statistic is aimed at showing 'diversity' but it does mean that very often the best and most qualified candidate doesn't hold that position. That is detrimental to police forces that see diversity as more important than talent, which is a situation repeatedly showing in other positions around the country in all sorts of situations. I know someone that left the police force because a female was put in charge of his section which, very soon, showed it was the wrong choice. This has no bearing on yesterday's incident, of course, but something has to be done because the country is sinking into anarchy and we need to get back to thinking more rational and logically.

Actually 11 out of 39 police and crime commissioners in England and Wales are female, that's 28%. Those positions are voted for by the public every four years, so I can't actually see how it has anything to do with police forces seeing diversity as more important than talent?

Yes, you are correct about Police Commissioners, I made an error in saying 'Commissioners' when I was actually referring to 'Chief Constables'. As you say Police Commissioners are elected while Chief Constables are promoted from within the County Police Forces. I beg your pardon for my mistake and thank you for your correction.

[Blue Walter]

If we hadn’t reduced police numbers so drastically perhaps they would have the resources to attend to such matters.

Shoplifting is still against the law. It is nothing to do with ‘woke’.

Motoring fines like the ones you mentioned are enforced and collected by machines.

Yes, police numbers are obviously impacting on the way the police can react to incidents. I am also aware that motoring offences are a different category, I was merely pointing out a conundrum that we seem to have reached whereby this particular incident is treated less seriously than a motoring offence.

Wokeness is affecting much of our lives one way or the other including the police force. For instance 40% of county police commissioners are women. This statistic is aimed at showing 'diversity' but it does mean that very often the best and most qualified candidate doesn't hold that position. That is detrimental to police forces that see diversity as more important than talent, which is a situation repeatedly showing in other positions around the country in all sorts of situations. I know someone that left the police force because a female was put in charge of his section which, very soon, showed it was the wrong choice. This has no bearing on yesterday's incident, of course, but something has to be done because the country is sinking into anarchy and we need to get back to thinking more rational and logically.

Nevertheless, as things stand, going 5 miles an hour faster than the permitted speed limit is treated as more seriously and more punishable than walking into a shop and taking what you want without paying for it.

EDIT - I have typed 'Commissioners' when I meant to say 'Chief Constables'. My apologies.

[Pompey1984+1]

What's the gender of the Chief Constable got to do with the policies ability to del with shoplifters?

[Betelgeuse]

Okay. My woke (used as a positive) perspective.

1. There are an awful lot of people living in our country who are struggling really badly. Some of them are desperate and cannot afford to feed their families. I am fortunate to have never been that desperate but if I was, I would do anything, including taking risks, to support my family.
2. I think it is sad that the likes of the Mail, Express and Telegraph have brainwashed their readers into focussing our attention on minor criminals nicking a few quid's worth of goods rather than those who have properly fked over our country for hundreds of millions. (If you are unaware of these you have your head in the sand)
3. Mocking gay policemen and women for taking part in Pride is just pathetic.
4. Shoplifting is still a crime that will be addressed by police but, as already mentioned above, police numbers have been cut to the extent they must prioritise crime x over crime y.
5. Shoplifting is not a new phenomena. It has always been rife but is eccentuted during times of extreme poverty like Victorian times and ... now.

[Blue Walter]

What's the gender of the Chief Constable got to do with the policies ability to del with shoplifters?

Nothing.

[Blue Walter]

I went back into that shop today and I can report that one of their serial shoplifters has been arrested. Not the bloke from the other day but another one of their 'regulars'. They told me that this particular bloke had amassed the value of stolen goods which the will police took action.

I see this as good news but others, no doubt, will have a different veiw. Maybe this particular person will get the help they need or the punishment they deserve.

[GreenBlue]

Okay. My woke (used as a positive) perspective.

1. There are an awful lot of people living in our country who are struggling really badly. Some of them are desperate and cannot afford to feed their families. I am fortunate to have never been that desperate but if I was, I would do anything, including taking risks, to support my family.
2. I think it is sad that the likes of the Mail, Express and Telegraph have brainwashed their readers into focussing our attention on minor criminals nicking a few quid's worth of goods rather than those who have properly fked over our country for hundreds of millions. (If you are unaware of these you have your head in the sand)
3. Mocking gay policemen and women for taking part in Pride is just pathetic.
4. Shoplifting is still a crime that will be addressed by police but, as already mentioned above, police numbers have been cut to the extent they must prioritise crime x over crime y.
5. Shoplifting is not a new phenomena. It has always been rife but is eccentuted during times of extreme poverty like Victorian times and ... now.

Go on then Betel. Counter my points if you can.

[Betelgeuse]

1. You do not steal, if you steal you should be prosecuted. But someone coming into a shop and scooping items into a bag is clearly not doing it to feed their family. It's probably for drugs.
2. I notice you mention Tory rags. You've just turned this into a political argument.
3. Police should not be showing their racial, political and sexual preferences, they are there to police.
4. Funny how the police can prioritise "hate crime" and arrest someone for "offending" someone, yet are unable to deal with "actual crime".
5. The kind of shoplifting BW is talking about has nothing to do with poverty, more like selling to buy drugs.

[Blue Walter]

1. You do not steal, if you steal you should be prosecuted. But someone coming into a shop and scooping items into a bag is clearly not doing it to feed their family. It's probably for drugs.
2. I notice you mention Tory rags. You've just turned this into a political argument.
3. Police should not be showing their racial, political and sexual preferences, they are there to police.
4. Funny how the police can prioritise "hate crime" and arrest someone for "offending" someone, yet are unable to deal with "actual crime".
5. The kind of shoplifting BW is talking about has nothing to do with poverty, more like selling to buy drugs.

Thank you for putting this issue more succinctly than I have. I seem to have an inability to write in a precise way that has plagued me all my life.

I am not particularly politically motivated but I lean more to a socialist veiw but I would describe myself as 'pink' rather than red. So I wasn't intending to bring politics into the agenda when I raised this particular discussion, others have done that. Also I acknowledge that policing has been in question under successive governments of both colours. I don't think politics should be brought in to excuse the anti social behaviour we see only too often. Or excuse seeing the police ridiculing themselves in a way to curry favour with politically themed demonstrations and gay carnivals. They should be approachable but their job is to keep the peace and uphold the law and should be seen as figure of respect, not folly. When you enter an airport in this country the police have an intimidating appearance while, at the same time, an assuring presence.

The bottom line is, in my veiw, that walking into a shop and stealing is an offence and, therefore, against the law and should always be a police matter which should be upheld in every case. In a civilised law abiding society we can't have a system whereby offences are only judged on monetary value as a degree of culpability. Shop keepers and workers have a right to enjoy a crime free workplace like the rest of us.

[Sam_Brown]

So what's the solution?

[BlueinPLtwenty]

As mentioned earlier my Wife had her purse stolen in Abruzzo Italy (the crime rate is amongst the lowest in Italy). We went to the Police Offices in the village where the theft took place. We arrived at 9.45 to find they didn`t open until 10 o`clock. Eventurely the Officer in charge opened the door. We tried to explain in our limited Italian (because he did not speak either English or French). We tried with our phones using the translate app to explain what had happened. He clearly was not interested and suggested if we came to Italy we should learn Italian and should come back with an interpreter. His final retort was what Village were we living in. The delight on his face when we told him where, because it was outside his area (8 miles away). He directed us to which Village we should go to. The saga continued several days later when we went to the other Village with a Friend who was bilingual to wait and wait for the Police to arrive to be told we needed a crime number from our Bank before they could do anything. So we gave up, as we had already stopped the bank cards. The story is more complicated and totally boring but the moral of the story is Police Forces the world over do not seem interested in minor crimes.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

You can get nicked for wearing a very unsavory tee shirt to the cup final though.

[eltorrro]

So what's the solution?

More severe punishment?
If perpetrator not British Citizen...deportation?

That would be a start