F1 Topic

[Sam_Brown]

Absolutely agree that Max is a tremendous driver. The best teams, of course, want the best drivers. Hamilton drives for Mercedes, and soon Ferarri because they want the best. Max will go we on to be one of the true greats I think, as is Lewis. Wouldn't it be amazing to see how they would get on against each other in the same car.

would you say that Nico Rosberg and George Russell are too?

I can’t answer for GB but I know the teams generally tend to develop the cars around their primary driver to align with their strengths. Often to the detriment of the secondary driver.

[GreenBlue]

Absolutely agree that Max is a tremendous driver. The best teams, of course, want the best drivers. Hamilton drives for Mercedes, and soon Ferarri because they want the best. Max will go on to be one of the true greats I think, as is Lewis. Wouldn't it be amazing to see how they would get on against each other in the same car.

would you say that Nico Rosberg and George Russell are too?

No, I don't see Nico nor George as true greats.

Nico was in a great car and won the championship, hugely aided by the best car in he field. Mercedes were never going to bring in an Alonso nor a Kimi Räikkönen as they had their star driver in Hamilton so Nico fitted the mould of the type of driver they were looking for. As did Bottas.

When Merc brought in Russell, it was felt he would be a future world champion but would play second fiddle to Hamilton the same way that Hamilton was brought in to play second fiddle to Alonso all those years ago at McLaren. I wonder whether Red Bull bring in Lando to play second fiddle to Max? I don't think so. In fact, I think Lando could go on to become one of the greats, like Max.

[Portchesterblue2]

Absolutely agree that Max is a tremendous driver. The best teams, of course, want the best drivers. Hamilton drives for Mercedes, and soon Ferarri because they want the best. Max will go on to be one of the true greats I think, as is Lewis. Wouldn't it be amazing to see how they would get on against each other in the same car.

would you say that Nico Rosberg and George Russell are too?

No, I don't see Nico nor George as true greats.

Nico was in a great car and won the championship, hugely aided by the best car in he field. Mercedes were never going to bring in an Alonso nor a Kimi Räikkönen as they had their star driver in Hamilton so Nico fitted the mould of the type of driver they were looking for. As did Bottas.

When Merc brought in Russell, it was felt he would be a future world champion but would play second fiddle to Hamilton the same way that Hamilton was brought in to play second fiddle to Alonso all those years ago at McLaren. I wonder whether Red Bull bring in Lando to play second fiddle to Max? I don't think so. In fact, I think Lando could go on to become one of the greats, like Max.

so George Russel who has out performed Hamilton for a season and a half wont go on to be a great? there was a great interview with toto Wolf (SP) at the start of last year, when he described the car as undrivable and thats why Hamilton was towards the back of the grid, the interviewers reply was, well Russell seems to think its ok, he is in 5th
Interesting that you say that Nico was in a great car, and yet Hamilton won championships in the same car but the pundits put it down to him not the car?

[Sam_Brown]

What are we classing as a great here? I assume it’s more than winning one or two world championships? I think Russell will be lucky to win 1 let alone a handful of titles although I’d like to be proven wrong.


When I think of greats I think of the likes of Hamilton, Schumacher and Prost. I think Max is well on his way to be included in that list but not there just yet. Some of the other names listed in this topic I just don’t feel it. Perhaps a case of recency bias?

[Portchesterblue2]

What are we classing as a great here? I assume it’s more than winning one or two world championships? I think Russell will be lucky to win 1 let alone a handful of titles although I’d like to be proven wrong.


When I think of greats I think of the likes of Hamilton, Schumacher and Prost. I think Max is well on his way to be included in that list but not there just yet. Some of the other names listed in this topic I just don’t feel it. Perhaps a case of recency bias?

now don't get me wrong Sam, I believe that Hamilton is an amazing driver, I don't like him personally but that's besides the point.
What i have an issue with is that if you are classing great as the number of world titles, Hamilton had a period where Mercedes were so far ahead of every one else, the only person he had to beat was his team mate, and he didn't manage to do that in one of the seasons. If the top two are regularly lapping everyone else in the field, can you class that as being down to the driver?

[Sam_Brown]

What are we classing as a great here? I assume it’s more than winning one or two world championships? I think Russell will be lucky to win 1 let alone a handful of titles although I’d like to be proven wrong.


When I think of greats I think of the likes of Hamilton, Schumacher and Prost. I think Max is well on his way to be included in that list but not there just yet. Some of the other names listed in this topic I just don’t feel it. Perhaps a case of recency bias?

now don't get me wrong Sam, I believe that Hamilton is an amazing driver, I don't like him personally but that's besides the point.
What i have an issue with is that if you are classing great as the number of world titles, Hamilton had a period where Mercedes were so far ahead of every one else, the only person he had to beat was his team mate, and he didn't manage to do that in one of the seasons. If the top two are regularly lapping everyone else in the field, can you class that as being down to the driver?

All fair points. The car definitely contributes no doubt. It's a difficult one because the best drivers often end up with the best cars so it makes it difficult to compare like for like. I definitely agree a team that laps the field like Mercedes did a while back suggests the car is performing well. After reading your post I think I agree with what you're saying. Maybe a good comparison is how drivers within the same team do with the same car on that argument?

From a spectator point of view I much prefer it when you have two or three drivers fighting it out over the title than one person running away with it. It's why I loved the 2021 season so much especially the last half of the season with Lewis and Max going all out trying to win it. When Max looked unstoppable I just got bored and didn't watch for about 18 months. I imagine people probably felt the same during the era of Mercedes dominance. Maybe instead of looking at it from the drive point of view we should look at it from the Constructors point of view as that eliminates the need to differentiate between dive and car. Not as fun though! Anyway I've only just started watching again now we finally have a bit more drama!

I do think Lewis is good though, despite what I might personally feel about him. I don't think there are many better at managing their tires. One of the reasons he managed to win last weekend was due to his tire management and there have been numerous other occasions where he's had to win despite being on poorer tires. Two below but there are more. I do think Lewis is still a great but accept my definition of what makes a great is probably overly simplistic.



https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oqiKf7cbJQ

[Sam_Brown]

I’m not sure what this shows but it’s an interesting stat.

[Portchesterblue2]

What are we classing as a great here? I assume it’s more than winning one or two world championships? I think Russell will be lucky to win 1 let alone a handful of titles although I’d like to be proven wrong.


When I think of greats I think of the likes of Hamilton, Schumacher and Prost. I think Max is well on his way to be included in that list but not there just yet. Some of the other names listed in this topic I just don’t feel it. Perhaps a case of recency bias?

now don't get me wrong Sam, I believe that Hamilton is an amazing driver, I don't like him personally but that's besides the point.
What i have an issue with is that if you are classing great as the number of world titles, Hamilton had a period where Mercedes were so far ahead of every one else, the only person he had to beat was his team mate, and he didn't manage to do that in one of the seasons. If the top two are regularly lapping everyone else in the field, can you class that as being down to the driver?

All fair points. The car definitely contributes no doubt. It's a difficult one because the best drivers often end up with the best cars so it makes it difficult to compare like for like. I definitely agree a team that laps the field like Mercedes did a while back suggests the car is performing well. After reading your post I think I agree with what you're saying. Maybe a good comparison is how drivers within the same team do with the same car on that argument?

From a spectator point of view I much prefer it when you have two or three drivers fighting it out over the title than one person running away with it. It's why I loved the 2021 season so much especially the last half of the season with Lewis and Max going all out trying to win it. When Max looked unstoppable I just got bored and didn't watch for about 18 months. I imagine people probably felt the same during the era of Mercedes dominance. Maybe instead of looking at it from the drive point of view we should look at it from the Constructors point of view as that eliminates the need to differentiate between dive and car. Not as fun though! Anyway I've only just started watching again now we finally have a bit more drama!

I do think Lewis is good though, despite what I might personally feel about him. I don't think there are many better at managing their tires. One of the reasons he managed to win last weekend was due to his tire management and there have been numerous other occasions where he's had to win despite being on poorer tires. Two below but there are more. I do think Lewis is still a great but accept my definition of what makes a great is probably overly simplistic.



https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... oqiKf7cbJQ

completely agree Sam, i stopped watching the mercedes processions every week, very dull indeed, and the red bulls was getting tedious, far more fun with a bit of overtaking and actual racing

[Sam_Brown]

Verstappen is not a happy bunny today. At the start of the season I thought a RB constructors championship was in the bag but a 1-2 for Mcclearn and seeing how RB have been struggling in recent races it could be an exciting end to the season.

[Sam_Brown]

Max potentially getting a 10 place penalty at Spa this weekend due to needing a new engine.

[BlueinPLtwenty]

Am I in the minority being totally unenthused by souped up cars going round and round a circuit at dangerous speeds to be classified by differences of split seconds.

[GreenBlue]

Am I in the minority being totally unenthused by souped up cars going round and round a circuit at dangerous speeds to be classified by differences of split seconds.

No, I don't believe you are in the minority but there are certainly some of us who are enthused by it.

I occasionally hear similar comments from peculiar people who question my interest in 22 people running around for 90 mins trying to kick a piece of leather.

It's good that we all have our own interests... I think.

[Sam_Brown]

Am I in the minority being totally unenthused by souped up cars going round and round a circuit at dangerous speeds to be classified by differences of split seconds.

Forgive me for doing one of my trademarked LongPosts™.

I dunno if you're in the minority but for me it's certainly more entertaining these days when one driver isn't finishing off miles in front! I definitely found it boring during the Hamilton years where he'd win everything and Verstappen over the last few years who'd end up so far in front in the table he'd effectively won the championship with about 8 races to go. Now we've got two \ three teams who seem to be on relatively level playing field and closing the gap on a previously seemingly unstoppable red bull team who seem to be ******** the bed. It's getting spicy again! Unfortunately a lot of the excitement seems to be coming from behind the scenes these days so whether that floats your boat probably impacts on how you feel about the sport.

This weekend should be good though. Verstappen has a bee in his bonnet (heh) and will be starting from way down the grid. He's losing ground on his competitors and seems to be getting really grumpy over everything so he's going to be really aggressive on a track that generally has a lot of scope for overtaking. He's a petulant man child who cries when he doesn't get his way and tends to be very aggressive (read: dangerous) so it's going to be worth the price of admission just to see how angry he gets and whether he's going to be the creator of his own downfall this weekend. Even his own team had enough of it last race!

[Sam_Brown]

Am I in the minority being totally unenthused by souped up cars going round and round a circuit at dangerous speeds to be classified by differences of split seconds.

No, I don't believe you are in the minority but there are certainly some of us who are enthused by it.

I occasionally hear similar comments from peculiar people who question my interest in 22 people running around for 90 mins trying to kick a piece of leather.

It's good that we all have our own interests... I think.

Hey I'm 38 and still love watching the WWE! You should see the looks I get sometimes lol. Luckily though wrestling does seem to be making a bit of a comeback. I went to an event last year at Wembley where 70,000 people turned up!

[GreenBlue]

Now we've got two \ three teams who seem to be on relatively level playing field and closing the gap on a previously seemingly unstoppable red bull team who seem to be ******** the bed. It's getting spicy again!

I wonder if this has any correlation to the departure of a certain Mr Adrian Newey?