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Selsey Bill wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 3:34 pm
I'm really enjoying the obvious leap in class at this level, and before the start of the season would have been happy with two points from our opening two fixtures, especially with our current crop of players available for selection. Luton looked better than us in a number of positions and probably would have won with 11 players on the pitch. They looked stronger, fitter and faster than us. I thought Mengi was outstanding for them and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him getting snapped up by a PL team before the transfer window shuts. Doughty was also excellent, and his set pieces were so much more dangerous than we can offer. I wouldn't be at all surprised if only three or four of our players from last Saturday were in our starting line up in a few weeks time: Pack, Shaughnessy, Williams and Ritchie (when Mous works out where to play him). Whilst I can see why Norris got MOTM, I think Mous has lost faith in him, hence why we are signing the Austrian keeper Nicolas Schmid. I thought Lang was very good on Saturday and having him back fully fit bodes well for the season. Like some others have mentioned, I think there is potential in Sammy Silvera with some coaching - his first touch is impressive, he is quick and I like his positivity. I am a big fan of Paddy Lane, but I think he is too lightweight at this level, and I think Saydee was the right choice to start, but should have been subbed earlier. We need Johnson and Yengi back, and I think Jacob Farrell will replace Ogilvie - he's too slow for this league. I'm intrigued to see where the Moxon v. Dozzell situation goes, but I'm hoping we get Tino Anjorin back as he is better than both IMO and has the strength, pace and physicality required for this league. What I do think after two games against two of the favourites to win the league is that we will be absolutely fine this season. PUP.
I like it Selsey you are spot on with your comments I noticed Paddy getting pushed aside too easily on Saturday as you say too lightweight but we will do well if we sell him on. IMO Our Championship players are Pack, Shocks, Williams, Richie, Lang, Farrell, Yengi, Murphy, Silvera, Dozzell, Moxon, Swanson, Poole, Mc Intyre,Saydee and Sorensen l make that 16 players.I think JM will keep Ogilvie as back up.
We should move on
Lane
Stephenson
Ogilvie
Lowery
Whyte
Loan out Devlin and Towler
I don't think we can make any worthwhile judgments yet who are 'Championship ready '. I think only players who have operated successfully at Championship level can be deemed as ready for this league. I think you can make a list of players who potentially can make the step up but I am not sure we have too many of those. I agree Towler needs games now to harness what potential he has which, in my opinion, he does at this level. He needs to be playing here or at a high level on loan if he can't be given a good run here. Devlin definitely needs a loan in my opinion because he is still raw and needs to be playing, but not here if he is out of his depth at the moment in the Championship. I noticed how Lane gets knocked off the ball a bit too easily but again he needs to be playing regularly. My concern with him is his lack of pace and his ability to get past players and, maybe, the Championship is bit too far for him.
As I have said I don't think we have too many players that can be described as Championship quality yet. However I think a team can compete at any level they operate with some players who are not at that level in their side. Players can make the difference up in quality with sheer graft and athleticism, but the level you play at has to have a fair sprinkling of players of that quality.
BlueinPLtwenty wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 1:31 pm
For a left winger Silvera is all right foot too predictable
Exactly what I expected that is what Middlesbrough fans said when he came to us some good ability but predictable and no final ball
Except that he did start to use his left foot as BluePL wrote later. Some of his crossing was bad, but he was one of the few who actually wanted to have a go and there was some final ball on occasion. So he's worth sticking with for now as hopefully the coaching team will work to improve his play.
He did see a lot of the ball but, for me, he wasted most of it. I think the reason why Silvera saw so much of the ball was down to our numerical advantage after the sending off. Luton changed their game to shore up the central defensive area which resulted in the wing areas being less populated, especially on the left. I was rather hoping that we made a switch and had Ritchie doing the crossing, which is his forte. I can't say I was overly impressed by Silvera but I think he did have moments when he looked like he could be good.
Reminds me of Kamara early last season. Let's hope our coaching staff can do their thing with Silvera like they did with Kamara.
The difference being that Silvera has had a season at this level with Middlesbrough whereas with Kamara it was his first season in men's football. The problem with loans is that if they have got talent it takes time to bring it out. This means a period of time when they are not contributing to the team whilst their talent is brought out, as we saw with Kamara last season. The second half of the season was a different Kamara than the one starting the season. There is no doubt he was a match winner by the time he left us but, prior to that, he was a bit of a liability. We have now done Norwich a good turn and sent back a player of merit. Now we are going through the same process with a player belonging to a club at the same level as us, and doing them a service. We need players that are going to be of use to us now, not halfway through the season. In my opinion loaned players should be ready to improve our team now and it is our youngsters that should be the ones being brought on.
Unfortunately currently our academy is not producing players to challenge for a first team place apart maybe for Toby Steward
This was brought into focus by the release of all of our final year scholars in the summer
At present apart from loaning them out there is no easy transition to the first team
Out of curiosity how do other teams do it? Southampton always seem to produce some good players. Whats their process for transitioning from their academy to first team?
Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 7:45 pm
Out of curiosity how do other teams do it? Southampton always seem to produce some good players. Whats their process for transitioning from their academy to first team?
It starts with attracting the best young talent that their scouts identify from an early age. Their history of bringing talent through helps make them a more attractive academy than rivals in the area meaning they hoover up the best talent meaning they are more likely to successfully make the transition through the academy into full professional players. Kinda chicken and the egg scenario.
Sam_Brown wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 7:45 pm
Out of curiosity how do other teams do it? Southampton always seem to produce some good players. Whats their process for transitioning from their academy to first team?
They have a category one academy which can attract young prospects plus an U18 and U21 squad to provide a progressive route to the first team enabling them so to suck up talent from around the South
It's similar to many other premiership clubs basically get as many as you can into their system and hope to get a few pearls you can either use or sell on
As a club we have rarely invested in developing our own players for our own squad just look at how many of our past players have made a success of their career elsewhere Pack Ritchie Chaplin Wallace etc etc etc
BlueinPLtwenty wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 1:31 pm
For a left winger Silvera is all right foot too predictable
Exactly what I expected that is what Middlesbrough fans said when he came to us some good ability but predictable and no final ball
Except that he did start to use his left foot as BluePL wrote later. Some of his crossing was bad, but he was one of the few who actually wanted to have a go and there was some final ball on occasion. So he's worth sticking with for now as hopefully the coaching team will work to improve his play.
He did see a lot of the ball but, for me, he wasted most of it. I think the reason why Silvera saw so much of the ball was down to our numerical advantage after the sending off. Luton changed their game to shore up the central defensive area which resulted in the wing areas being less populated, especially on the left. I was rather hoping that we made a switch and had Ritchie doing the crossing, which is his forte. I can't say I was overly impressed by Silvera but I think he did have moments when he looked like he could be good.
Reminds me of Kamara early last season. Let's hope our coaching staff can do their thing with Silvera like they did with Kamara.
The difference being that Silvera has had a season at this level with Middlesbrough whereas with Kamara it was his first season in men's football. The problem with loans is that if they have got talent it takes time to bring it out. This means a period of time when they are not contributing to the team whilst their talent is brought out, as we saw with Kamara last season. The second half of the season was a different Kamara than the one starting the season. There is no doubt he was a match winner by the time he left us but, prior to that, he was a bit of a liability. We have now done Norwich a good turn and sent back a player of merit. Now we are going through the same process with a player belonging to a club at the same level as us, and doing them a service. We need players that are going to be of use to us now, not halfway through the season. In my opinion loaned players should be ready to improve our team now and it is our youngsters that should be the ones being brought on.
The problem is we don't have a production line of our own talent yet so we will have to make do with using others and them benefitting from our good coaching. We will get some benefit out of Silvera this season, but hopefully he will be more used as a sub when we have all of our options available. Last season Kamara was thrust into the side before he was ready thanks to injuries and under performing players. Thankfully he developed quickly and became invaluable. Let's hope we won't be as reliant on Silvera this season.
BlueinPLtwenty wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 1:31 pm
For a left winger Silvera is all right foot too predictable
Exactly what I expected that is what Middlesbrough fans said when he came to us some good ability but predictable and no final ball
Except that he did start to use his left foot as BluePL wrote later. Some of his crossing was bad, but he was one of the few who actually wanted to have a go and there was some final ball on occasion. So he's worth sticking with for now as hopefully the coaching team will work to improve his play.
He did see a lot of the ball but, for me, he wasted most of it. I think the reason why Silvera saw so much of the ball was down to our numerical advantage after the sending off. Luton changed their game to shore up the central defensive area which resulted in the wing areas being less populated, especially on the left. I was rather hoping that we made a switch and had Ritchie doing the crossing, which is his forte. I can't say I was overly impressed by Silvera but I think he did have moments when he looked like he could be good.
Reminds me of Kamara early last season. Let's hope our coaching staff can do their thing with Silvera like they did with Kamara.
The difference being that Silvera has had a season at this level with Middlesbrough whereas with Kamara it was his first season in men's football. The problem with loans is that if they have got talent it takes time to bring it out. This means a period of time when they are not contributing to the team whilst their talent is brought out, as we saw with Kamara last season. The second half of the season was a different Kamara than the one starting the season. There is no doubt he was a match winner by the time he left us but, prior to that, he was a bit of a liability. We have now done Norwich a good turn and sent back a player of merit. Now we are going through the same process with a player belonging to a club at the same level as us, and doing them a service. We need players that are going to be of use to us now, not halfway through the season. In my opinion loaned players should be ready to improve our team now and it is our youngsters that should be the ones being brought on.
The problem is we don't have a production line of our own talent yet so we will have to make do with using others and them benefitting from our good coaching. We will get some benefit out of Silvera this season, but hopefully he will be more used as a sub when we have all of our options available. Last season Kamara was thrust into the side before he was ready thanks to injuries and under performing players. Thankfully he developed quickly and became invaluable. Let's hope we won't be as reliant on Silvera this season.
Yes I appreciate that we don't have a viable system ourselves and our youngsters have to go out on loan for our benefit. My view is that while we are in or current situation, needing to hang on to our Championship status, we need players in that enhance our team straight away. I don't think we have that luxury of being able to nuture players for other clubs operating at the same level as us. Obviously Middlesbrough have a stronger squad than us but, nevertheless, Silvera is not at a good enough level to add to their squad just yet. The fact that he was with them last season makes me think he is here for two reasons. One is to get the experience and game time he won't get at Middlesbrough and the other is to see if he can make it at this level but not having him in the side and weakening their starting line up.
From what I have seen from Silvera I would have to say that I am not overly impressed but he does show flashes that would suggest he could be a good player. That's where we come in. From my point of view I see just staying in this league as our end goal this season. I would have the same veiw as if we were going for promotion where I would only want players who were better than we had here and would actually add to the team. The only time any team could potentially weaken their team by using players that need time to get up to speed is when they are established in their particular league. Obviously the lower a club is in the league pyramid the better the chance is of loaning a player from a higher placed club that will improve their team. Nurturing players for other clubs benefit is not a luxury that clubs wanting to go up, or stay up, can really rely on.
eltorrro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:52 pm
Good post SB, but have I missed something or just being thick?..."We need Johnson and Yengi back"...who is this Johnson??
BlueinPLtwenty wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 1:31 pm
For a left winger Silvera is all right foot too predictable
Exactly what I expected that is what Middlesbrough fans said when he came to us some good ability but predictable and no final ball
Except that he did start to use his left foot as BluePL wrote later. Some of his crossing was bad, but he was one of the few who actually wanted to have a go and there was some final ball on occasion. So he's worth sticking with for now as hopefully the coaching team will work to improve his play.
He did see a lot of the ball but, for me, he wasted most of it. I think the reason why Silvera saw so much of the ball was down to our numerical advantage after the sending off. Luton changed their game to shore up the central defensive area which resulted in the wing areas being less populated, especially on the left. I was rather hoping that we made a switch and had Ritchie doing the crossing, which is his forte. I can't say I was overly impressed by Silvera but I think he did have moments when he looked like he could be good.
Reminds me of Kamara early last season. Let's hope our coaching staff can do their thing with Silvera like they did with Kamara.
The difference being that Silvera has had a season at this level with Middlesbrough whereas with Kamara it was his first season in men's football. The problem with loans is that if they have got talent it takes time to bring it out. This means a period of time when they are not contributing to the team whilst their talent is brought out, as we saw with Kamara last season. The second half of the season was a different Kamara than the one starting the season. There is no doubt he was a match winner by the time he left us but, prior to that, he was a bit of a liability. We have now done Norwich a good turn and sent back a player of merit. Now we are going through the same process with a player belonging to a club at the same level as us, and doing them a service. We need players that are going to be of use to us now, not halfway through the season. In my opinion loaned players should be ready to improve our team now and it is our youngsters that should be the ones being brought on.
The problem is we don't have a production line of our own talent yet so we will have to make do with using others and them benefitting from our good coaching. We will get some benefit out of Silvera this season, but hopefully he will be more used as a sub when we have all of our options available. Last season Kamara was thrust into the side before he was ready thanks to injuries and under performing players. Thankfully he developed quickly and became invaluable. Let's hope we won't be as reliant on Silvera this season.
Yes I appreciate that we don't have a viable system ourselves and our youngsters have to go out on loan for our benefit. My view is that while we are in or current situation, needing to hang on to our Championship status, we need players in that enhance our team straight away. I don't think we have that luxury of being able to nuture players for other clubs operating at the same level as us. Obviously Middlesbrough have a stronger squad than us but, nevertheless, Silvera is not at a good enough level to add to their squad just yet. The fact that he was with them last season makes me think he is here for two reasons. One is to get the experience and game time he won't get at Middlesbrough and the other is to see if he can make it at this level but not having him in the side and weakening their starting line up.
From what I have seen from Silvera I would have to say that I am not overly impressed but he does show flashes that would suggest he could be a good player. That's where we come in. From my point of view I see just staying in this league as our end goal this season. I would have the same veiw as if we were going for promotion where I would only want players who were better than we had here and would actually add to the team. The only time any team could potentially weaken their team by using players that need time to get up to speed is when they are established in their particular league. Obviously the lower a club is in the league pyramid the better the chance is of loaning a player from a higher placed club that will improve their team. Nurturing players for other clubs benefit is not a luxury that clubs wanting to go up, or stay up, can really rely on.
I agree with you regarding loans needing to be able to contribute as soon as signed which would I think be the reason we have 4 more loans available
Those are likely I think to be from premiership teams after they settle their squads
I do wonder if the decision on the Silvera loan was based on the fact that we missed out on him last season so saw an opportunity now
I think he has talent but it needs to be build on with coaching over time,and had we got him last season he would maybe like Kamara and Yengi improved as the season progressed and be more of an asset now.
As it is at present he’s learning on the job primarily due to our injuries otherwise maybe he would have been introduced gradually
